"Beer Geeks" who don't brew

Let me switch it around for you. How insulted do you think the beerforum crowd would be if I posted this over there?:

"And you know what, i cant think of one reason why drinking beer would be more impressive than brewing a beer. It is a nice vice for some, enjoy jt....but it doesnt make you special or smarter. Unless you drank that anarchy ale or this black allagash i just finished....then you know nothing more than i can know. I think before you start insulting someone's intelligence and ability to comprehend things you should know who you are talking to. Otherwise you are just showing yourself how this is the story all about how my life got flipped-turned upside down. And I'd like to take a minute so just sit right there, I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air.

This crowd is certainly more hostile than the homebrewtalk crowd, where we welcome everyone without trying to insult them or make digs at them."

Hi all, there's lots of opinions floating around, and as someone on the 'sister' forum who is interested in getting into brewing but currently lacks the time(or is supposedly too lazy, haha), I thought I'd add one more perspective.

I'm far from an expert, but have been enjoying craft beer as a hobby from a consumer standpoint for over a decade. I admittedly know little about the intricacies of the many different processes/ingredients for the unlimited different styles out there, although I appreciate and respect all of them.

In my opinion brewing can only further your current knowledge on beer, everything from the process to finished product. The act and experience of doing is always very powerful when learning a subject. I truly agree with this philosophy, but I disagree with - a consumer only's knowledge, experience, and opinion being worthless.

I find it hard to believe someone knows more about beer in totality than I because they brewed one batch of beer(maybe they do though?). Someone who has brewed the same or similar IPA and only that for a decade will no doubt have a lot of knowledge on that one style within a style, but are they a pro in regards to all beer(maybe the beer isn't even good, or maybe it's fantastic!)? Should the head brewer at one of the best craft breweries around tell all of you that your opinions aren't worth a d@mn because you don't have access to the same ingredients and products, or do you really think your opinion should still matter?

My personal opinion is beer is brewed to be enjoyed, whether consumed by a master brewer or grateful consumer. Everyone who enjoys the hobby has their own experience, thoughts and opinions from the extremely limited to the craft geniuses. I'm no beer genius, but I love a good brew and gladly enjoy one with anyone willing to pull up a chair.

For anyone with different opinions, fine by me - to each their own...

b-boy said:

They are just lazy beer geeks....

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this.
i enjoy spending the time to actuall brew the beer. it's just like car nerds- you can hand over a chunk of cash and someone will hand you a sweet car... or you can build it yourself. there's a certain satisfaction to the craft that some people just don't care about. they're only concerned with the end product. i consider myself a brewing nerd and a beer nerd. i like the process and the result. beer geeks who don't brew just want to drink different beers

Not to go all wikipedia-y on this thread, but ...

"A snob is a person who believes in the existence of an equation between status and human worth.[1] In other words, a snob values another person primarily on the basis of the level of social rank that such other person holds in society. This implies that a snob judges who is allowed into the snob's circle of acquaintances and friends primarily on the basis of the status of such candidate. One is consequentially highly likely to lose a snob's affection and attention soon after one has lost one's status.

The term snob is sometimes also used for a person who believe that some people are inherently inferior to him or her for any one of a variety of reasons, including real or supposed intellect, wealth, education, ancestry, power, physical strength, class, taste, beauty, nationality, fame, extreme success of a family member or friend, etc. Often this form of snobbery reflects the snob's personal attributes. For example, a common snobbery of the affluent is the belief that wealth is either the cause or result of superiority, or both.[citation needed]"

The word geek is a slang term originally used to describe odd or non-mainstream people, with different connotations ranging from "an expert or enthusiast" to "a person heavily interested in a hobby", with a general pejorative meaning of "a peculiar or otherwise dislikable person, esp[ecially] one who is perceived to be overly intellectual".[1]
Although often considered as a pejorative, the term is also often used self-referentially without malice or as a source of pride. Its meaning has evolved to connote "someone who is interested in a subect (usually intellectual or complex) for its own sake."

So - beer geek = good. Beer snob = bad.

Homercidal said:

I don't think it's elitist to believe that actually studying about something and actually experiencing the making of it makes you better able to understand that something. That's just logical.

In this case, being good or experienced in tasting beer does not elevate one to knowing as much about the beer itself as someone whose actually brewed it. It just means you are good at tasting it.

That said, even someone who hasn't brewed can read all about brewing and have a fairly detailed knowledge of brewing. I wouldn't go so far as to say they know as much as everyone in the hobby though. Because assuredly there are brewers who brew with very little knowledge and there are even more expert brewers in the homebrewing hobby. And I know from personal experience that even with years of study and practice there is plenty left to be learned.

The bottom line is the question of whether we question the beer itself? It sounds like people are confusing "The Beer" with "Tasting Beer" and "Making Beer". They are not the same things.

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It would seem we got way off track from the original point of the thread. The OP made it clear, after a clarifying post, that:

Xpertskir said:

I'm more talking about the uber beer geeks who treat drinking beer like collecting comic books. Hounding shops for special releases, traveling all over the country to go to breweries, and dropping hundreds or thousands of dollars a year shipping trades.

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I'll concede the point that brewing may give one a better understanding of beer than the geekiest of non-brewing beer geeks, but that's not what the OP was saying. What I get from that post is that the OP thinks non-brewers should somehow be limited in how they choose to enjoy they beer that was, ironically enough, brewed for the very people the OP is referring to.

xjmox14x said:

Let me switch it around for you. How insulted do you think the beerforum crowd would be if I posted this over there?:

"And you know what, i cant think of one reason why drinking beer would be more impressive than brewing a beer. It is a nice vice for some, enjoy jt....but it doesnt make you special or smarter. Unless you drank that anarchy ale or this black allagash i just finished....then you know nothing more than i can know. I think before you start insulting someone's intelligence and ability to comprehend things you should know who you are talking to. Otherwise you are just showing yourself how this is the story all about how my life got flipped-turned upside down. And I'd like to take a minute so just sit right there, I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air.

This crowd is certainly more hostile than the homebrewtalk crowd, where we welcome everyone without trying to insult them or make digs at them."

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First, very funny end to the reversal.

But i came in here and was immediately told i wasnt capable of understanding something. That is pretty hostile.

Anyway, i wasnt looking for any conflict but i stand by my point that just having brewed beer doesnt make someone smarter than another who only drinks it.

chuckrock said:

First, very funny end to the reversal.

But i came in here and was immediately told i wasnt capable of understanding something. That is pretty hostile.

Anyway, i wasnt looking for any conflict but i stand by my point that just having brewed beer doesnt make someone smarter than another who only drinks it.

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For reference, typically only the debate threads on this forum get hostile (and that section comes with a disclaimer). The whole site is moderated pretty closely. This just seems to be a galvanizing topic.

On point #2, I think there are a whole lot of "despair" posters that cover your point nicely. My favorite is "Persistence - there's no end to what you can't accomplish if you try hard enough." Doing doesn't mean doing it right (ask any master plumber, electrician, etc. about the hack jobs they see from DIYers). However, there's a limit to what people can understand when that understanding is purely academic. This goes for brewing and non brewing beer geeks alike. Until you've done hop and malt experiments, tried specific yeast comparisons, etc. there is a limit to comprehension.

None of that has a lot to do with enjoying a good beer - ability to smell and taste is like being able to hear music vs. being tone deaf. You can be a solid brewer but have crappy taste, people rag on BMC but they make billions, etc.

LOL!!!! this thread is getting more ridiculous every day. We got people quoting definitions out of a dictionary, quoting the thread starter for relevance and we have people arguing about the right to post on here.

Yes I don't think you should be arguing with brewers about brewing if you're not a brewer, but I only have one bottle of homebrew left!!!!! So who cares!!!

thesmithsera said:

LOL!!!! this thread is getting more ridiculous every day. We got people quoting definitions out of a dictionary, quoting the thread starter for relevance and we have people arguing about the right to post on here.

Yes I don't think you should be arguing with brewers about brewing if you're not a brewer, but I only have one bottle of homebrew left!!!!! So who cares!!!

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I think it started pretty ridiculous. You should check the funny things people say about beer thread -I swear that 3 full pages were devoted to quitting smoking.

Good times!

brewguyver said:

I think it started pretty ridiculous. You should check the funny things people say about beer thread -I swear that 3 full pages were devoted to quitting smoking.

Good times!

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ooh man that one started out great though

Yeah,well,I get off a goody now & then. I was just addin' my 2c...really...

There is more arrogance and condescension in this thread than in all of BA combined. Sadly only about half of it is deliberate trolling.

ktblunden said:

There is more arrogance and condescension in this thread than in all of BA combined. Sadly only about half of it is deliberate trolling.

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I seriously doubt this. We have some spirited debates with what works for us vs another. some start psuedo troll threads cause they think it's funny. Others really are troll threads. Other times,it's more like "I know this works,why are you telling me it's wrong & doesn't work?!" sorta thing.

thesmithsera said:

LOL!!!! this thread is getting more ridiculous every day. We got people quoting definitions out of a dictionary, quoting the thread starter for relevance and we have people arguing about the right to post on here.

Yes I don't think you should be arguing with brewers about brewing if you're not a brewer, but I only have one bottle of homebrew left!!!!! So who cares!!!

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Once you drink that last bottle of homebrew left then YOU ARE NO LONGER A HOMEBREWER. BECAUSE I SAID SO.

chuckrock said:

But i came in here and was immediately told i wasnt capable of understanding something. That is pretty hostile.

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Jokingly told that you weren't capable of understanding something. And that something, apparently, was "humor."

chuckrock said:

Anyway, i wasnt looking for any conflict but i stand by my point that just having brewed beer doesnt make someone smarter than another who only drinks it.

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And it's okay to be wrong about things, even if you don't want to admit that you're wrong. That's what makes our society so great.

Are you catching on to this "humor" thing yet? Let me know.

unionrdr said:

I seriously doubt this. We have some spirited debates with what works for us vs another. some start psuedo troll threads cause they think it's funny. Others really are troll threads. Other times,it's more like "I know this works,why are you telling me it's wrong & doesn't work?!" sorta thing.

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I'm talking about this specific thread, not the forum in general.

You know, I don't get out a whole bunch, but I've never had anyone get geeky/snobby/elitist over what I am drinking. I've given a buddy of mine some crap because he drinks PBR, but it's all in good fun. I also have a few friends that are beer geeks and don't brew. All I hear from them is "when can I try yours?".

I did know one guy that was a bit of a tool about his own homebrew, but I found him annoying and stopped talking to him. Seems pretty simple.

May as well turn this thread into primary vs. secondary, nobody is going to agree.

LandoLincoln said:

Once you drink that last bottle of homebrew left then YOU ARE NO LONGER A HOMEBREWER. BECAUSE I SAID SO.

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what about the beer i have in my fermenters ?

thesmithsera said:

what about the beer i have in my fermenters ?

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I'll make an exception. But you just watch yourself.

NewJersey said:

this.
i enjoy spending the time to actuall brew the beer. it's just like car nerds- you can hand over a chunk of cash and someone will hand you a sweet car... or you can build it yourself. there's a certain satisfaction to the craft that some people just don't care about. they're only concerned with the end product. i consider myself a brewing nerd and a beer nerd. i like the process and the result. beer geeks who don't brew just want to drink different beers

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I think the car enthusiast is a really good analogy here. There are people who like to drive cars...and people who like to look at cars...and people who like to work on cars.

They are all still car enthusiasts. They just have a different perspective on the hobby. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't have room for a classic car, but I still consider my self a car enthusiast. I love talking to people who work on their cars. I love going to car shows and looking at cool cars.

Maybe we need different terms:

• Beer Geek = Someone who enjoys, and knows a lot about, beer.
  
• Homebrew Geek = Someone who enjoys, knows a lot about beer, and brews his own.

You can be one or the other - or both.

b-boy said:

[*]Beer Geek = Someone who enjoys, and knows a lot about, beer.

[*]Homebrew Geek = Someone who enjoys, knows a lot about beer, and brews his own.


You can be one or the other - or both.

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Don't forget "Guy who inspired BWW commercial." There is also "that guy."

I enjoyed drinking beers ( decent stuff in real ale cask mark pubs and beer festivals) for nearly twenty years before I had a go at brewing.

2 things stopped me being interested.

1. Personal circumstances. I never had the time/money/space to do it. I am a bit of a back to basics kind of person so (please don't take this the wrong way extract brewers) I didn't see the point of trying it if I wasn't going to do it from scratch in the same way I make cheese, bake breads, cure meats. Whilst I was interested in the process and did loads of brewery tours etc, it took me ages to get to the point where I started getting the kit together and understanding what was involved. Lurking here helped a lot.

2. The few experiences i had of homebrew were diacetyl laden bottles of butter beer and I always had a feeling that if this was what people keen on the hobby produced, as a novice mine would be only good for putting in slug traps in the veg garden. Think the BWW bratwurst beer with a Brussels sprout after taste. That's what I thought I'd end up with.

Did this stop me enjoying drinking as many varieties of beer as I could get my hands on or learning to appreciate the complexities of a good oatmeal stout? No.

I don't think I enjoy beer more now than I ever did. I might understand HOW breweries produce their products a bit better, but I could quite happily have continued drinking great beer without ever brewing.

Am I the only one that didn't enjoy beer that much before they started brewing?

I liked beer, but I was definitely NOT a beer geek. I got my brew kit from my wife for Christmas, and I always wanted to brew, but I'm not sure why.

funnycreature said:

Even more weird are those who brew but don't drink... And I have to agree with the_trout that buying good craft beer would be so much easier. Not sure about the "cheaper" part though once the equipment has amortized.

EDIT: I actually never appreciated beer as much as I do now that I brew myself. Now I pay much more attention to what style of beer I buy, how the flavor is, the aroma etc. Homebrewing has made me much pickier!

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No. Actually the weirdest are those who don't drink and don't brew.

AgentHubcap said:

Am I the only one that didn't enjoy beer that much before they started brewing?

I liked beer, but I was definitely NOT a beer geek. I got my brew kit from my wife for Christmas, and I always wanted to brew, but I'm not sure why.

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I too started my love affair with beer because of homebrewing. I always liked beer before but brewing my own made it an obsession.

As for beer geeks who don't brew... I respect them but understand they are usually very limited. They might be able to identify an off flavor but not say what it is. An experienced homebrewer can pin point exactly where I got off track and give better advice for the next one. I also think the average beer geek doesn't regard BMC as the marvel that homebrewers do. We understand that it is HARD to make consistent beer. Even if it seems consistently lackluster. Given the choice I would prefer a fellow brewer taste my beer over even the most knowledgeable beer geek that doesn't brew.

I guess I have never met any beer geeks, at least the annoying ones. My son likes to 'watch beer' - an old Beer Hunter series. That guy was a beer geek, but at least he went to the places and talked to the brewers. The ones now seem to drone on and on about over-priced microbrews; American interpretations of older styles. Personally, I think most of it is mediocre and over-priced - $16 for a 22oz barleywine?? WTF?!
But at least it's taking over store real estate. My local grocery is about 80% non-Miller/Coors/Bud, so that's something. But I still find myself buying the same 4 or 5 things I bought 15 years ago when I started brewing - Guinness, SNPA, Anchor Steam.
Maybe I'm just old and cheap, but making my own is the only way i get beer that I like, and even then I sometimes throw together a batch that sucks, but I am too dense to just remake the batches that I like.
I have been reading about the history of brewing in England, so now I think I want to make English beer again, except for a citrus bomb here and there to get my APA fix in.
Just my $0.02

kaconga said:

As for beer geeks who don't brew... I respect them but understand they are usually very limited. They might be able to identify an off flavor but not say what it is.

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If you ever find one that does understand all the off flavors, then you've probably found the geekiest of the beer geeks. Someone who's done all the flavor wheels and sought out bad beers just for the sake of knowledge, and not to improve brewing ... that's one hell of a geek.

kchomebrew said:

No. Actually the weirdest are those who don't drink and don't brew.

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I know a fellow who doesn't drink beer, but brews. Talk about being a giving person!

brewguyver said:

So - beer geek = good. Beer snob = bad.

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I've heard this one: "A beer geek cares what HE drinks. A beer snob cares what YOU drink."

To paraphrase for this site:

A homebrew snob doesn't think you can possibly appreciate his creation if you don't also brew. A homebrew geek just hopes you'll like it.

NickTheGreat said:

I know a fellow who doesn't drink beer, but brews. Talk about being a giving person!

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Unfortunately this is me - I drink about 20% and give away 80% since I'm on the road all the time. Batches smaller than 5 gallons annoy me, so I always have extra.

bwarbiany said:

I've heard this one: "A beer geek cares what HE drinks. A beer snob cares what YOU drink."

To paraphrase for this site:

A homebrew snob doesn't think you can possibly appreciate his creation if you don't also brew. A homebrew geek just hopes you'll like it.

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Nice work - totally agree!

Before brewing I thought I was a beer geek. After tasting a truly fresh IPA made by me I realized I knew nothing.