Oregon squashes Home Brew Competitions

New here, but had to post this up.

The Oregon Liquor Control Commission has interpreted the law governing home beer and wine brewing as being for consumption on the premises only. By their interpretation, home brew cannot be transported and shared... which means not to brew club meetings, competitions out of State, your buddies wedding, etc. They have canceled the two home brewing competitions at the Oregon State Fair.

http://lisamorrison.hoppress.com/20...ed/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Those of us who deal with code and people paid to enforce it know full well the BS that immediately follows some guys interpretations...
That being said what kind of numb fuk would go to the LCB when they have been running this for 22 years already? That guy better get a ***** slap in the mouth. fuking idiot.
Everybody knows you don't bring **** up to the liquor board or the health department.

It was apparently an entire comittee of numb nuts! Therefore a group ***** slap would be in order!!

The hiccup in the law was brought to light by a committee of the Oregon State Fair, which asked the OLCC whether its big homebrew competition, which would have been in its 22nd year this August, was operating against that law because the home brew is transported outside the home and is sampled by judges.

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I hear that this is (for now at least) sending ripples down to the HB Clubs...

It also appears that home brewers might not even be able to participate in other competitions outside the state; the OLCC is ruling that homebrew can’t be transported, because the law stipulates the beer must be consumed at the home where it is brewed. Heck, home brewers might not even be able to legally bring a corny keg of their latest IPA to friend’s summer barbecue the way the OLCC is currently interpreting the law....

...PDX Brewers have already decided to ban homebrew from its meetings, and the Oregon Brew Crew, one of the oldest homebrew clubs in the country, is meeting later today (Tuesday) to discuss whether to ban members from bringing homebrew to meetings.

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Yet another item in a long list of reasons to get rid of the OLCC

Dunerunner said:

It was apparently an entire comittee of numb nuts! Therefore a group ***** slap woul be in order!!

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line em up for the guinness book of records biggest bitchslap

I specially liked this part of the piece....

What can you do? If you are a craft beer lover and/or home brewer, even if you don’t live in Oregon, please consider giving good beer a voice in this important issue. You can find contact information for the state’s representatives here: http://www.leg.state.or.us/house/ and a listing for the senators here: http://www.leg.state.or.us/senate/.

If you live in-state, I think the motivation for them to listen to our voices should be pretty clear. But if you are from out-of-state, perhaps the legislators would want to hear your perspective as well — as an outsider who enjoys Oregon beer and maybe even comes here to visit and spend some of your hard-earned money. Or might not any more.

Oh, and while you’re at it, you can contact the OLCC here: http://www.oregon.gov/OLCC/contact_us.shtml.

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Its a big mess for Oregon. I just hope that the legislators sort it all next time they are in session. I also hope that both the beer and wine industries based in Oregon really push hard on this issue. This whole thing is giving the OLCC a huge black eye. Maybe it will be the straw that breaks its back.

I'm not a member of the homebrew clubs in PDX, but I don't plan to stop giving my friends beer, and taking it over to BBQ's at friends house. Sometimes a little civil disobedience is called for.

dewey316 said:

Its a big mess for Oregon. I just hope that the legislators sort it all next time they are in session. I also hope that both the beer and wine industries based in Oregon really push hard on this issue. This whole thing is giving the OLCC a huge black eye. Maybe it will be the straw that breaks its back.

I'm not a member of the homebrew clubs in PDX, but I don't plan to stop giving my friends beer, and taking it over to BBQ's at friends house. Sometimes a little civil disobedience is called for.

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Civil disobedience is the only easy answer.....now. What has happened is related to the principle "It's always easier to obtain forgiveness than permission." Pandora's box (in this case the bureaucracy that controls liquor in Oregon, which is apparently not the paradise for alcoholic beverages that some on this forum would have us believe) is now open, and it will be far, far more difficult to turn the OLCC bean counters off than it was to get their attention in the first place.

I have already e-mailed my legislators, and will be sending hand addressed letters this week. There is a lot more than a little disobedience.

The paradise comment is a double edged sword. Oregon is in some ways a great place for it, the sheer number of breweries and home-brewers attest to that. But, like everything, there are also its issues.

The good news for Oregon, is that we hopefully will have a large percentage of the population, and a good number of businesses that will stand up for the home brewers. I have a lot of confidence that this bit of law will be revised, i just hope that it happens sooner than later.

People from out of state with the view you just expressed, need to contact our elected officials! There is a lot of money that comes into this state from the reputation we have for both our beer and our wine. If the perceptions about Oregon beer and wine change, the state can lose an awful lot of money.

I have complete confidence that this will be correct in the future. It's obviously a wording oversight. It blows my mind that this sort of thing can happen in Oregon! Not sure how broad an amendment (or whatever you call them) would be, but they can certainly put an exception for competitions in there!

dewey316 said:

I have already e-mailed my legislators, and will be sending hand addressed letters this week. The paradise comment is a double edged sword. Oregon is in some ways a great place for it, the sheer number of breweries and home-brewers attest to that. But, like everything, there are also its issues.

People from out of state with the view you just expressed, need to contact our elected officials! There is a lot of money that comes into this state from the reputation we have for both our beer and our wine. If the perceptions about Oregon beer and wine change, the state can lose an awful lot of money.

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I believe this is key to reform, and it will have to come from the Legislature as I doubt the OLCC will back away from this interpretation of the law. I emailed the article to everyone in my little brew club. I hope everyone who reads this post does the same.

The legislatures are already looking into this as some of them are homebrewers themselves. I don't see this taking long to correct (but I have been wrong in life before)

It has already trickled down to the homebrew clubs, they are no longer allowing homebrew to be brought to the meetings until this is resolved.

neko said:

Yet another item in a long list of reasons to get rid of the OLCC

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Couldn't agree more. The OLCC is one of the worst bureaucracies in the country.

Thats such a hit againts Oregon's great craft brew image. As far as Im concerned, Homebrew and craft brew are intertwined in philosophies and to pull the homebrewer's away from competition forces them to go underground. What a slap in the face to Oregon's progressive image. Maybe they should all move to Alabama, I hear their Homebrew laws are pretty lax there.
-Jefe-

You could still have competitions, you just can't transport your beer. So all you have to do is have an in-house competition where you compete against your own beers...

This has limitless potential! (or very little potential, I can't decide. They are so similar!)

In a conversation with a local BATF agent I was told that in his opinion Home brew can only be consumed in the home in which it was brewed and anything else is a violation of federal law. He also said he was more concerned about the T and F portions of his agency and probably would never do anything about the A.

Have you guys heard of that Jason Evers guy who stole the identity of a dead kid? He ran the local OLCC office and got ran out of town by bar owners. Now sitting in the federal pen.

http://kezi.com/news/local/175669

The OLCC has actually been trying to loosen up their strings after Evers left town but I haven't noticed anything yet.

That's rough. I hope they can turn it around for the brewers up there. A competition with a 22 year history being shut down because of someone's big stupid mouth is just awful.

Basically this is a stupid "re-interpretation" of settled law. Quoting from an article:
"The issue has to do with the judging," Bradley said Monday. "Judges are considered the public, and we cannot have the public tasting amateur wine or beer."

Here's a link to the article. http://www.katu.com/news/97269679.html

I think we need to start looking at what our neighbors in Washington state are doing and start a initiative petition to privatize liquor sales and get OLCC out of the business of sales. Of course we need to get the legislature the change the law too.

What restrictions are you guys in other states facing concerning homebrew?

Have EVERY club member written, emailed or called the AHA to mobilize the troops?

We're way ahead of that. The Oregon Home Brew Alliance has been formed to get the law changed. We have support from the AHA, at least 2 state legislators on board and draft language already being reviewed. The OHBA has reps from several clubs in OR. One thing I'd like to point out is that writing angry letters to the OLCC or legislators is not gonna help. We need these people on our side. The OLCC has already expressed an interest in getting the law changed. If anyone has specific questions, please contact. We have a website that will be online soon with info. In the meantime, you can sign up for a mailing list at http://groups.google.com/group/oregon-home-brewers-alliance .

Denny said:

We're way ahead of that. The Oregon Home Brew Alliance has been formed to get the law changed. , you can sign up for a mailing list at http://groups.google.com/group/oregon-home-brewers-alliance .

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I thought you would be on top of anything like that .
Good luck guys.

There's also a facebook page.


http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=128559587179214

While I applaud people expressing their opinions and trying to get the law changed, the Facebook page seems to make it clear that most people don't have a depth of understanding about the law and the exact changes that need to be made. I don't want public pressure to incite changes to one portion of the law and leave others intact. That's why I encourage interested parties to also support the OHBA and the efforts we're making.

I agree Denny! So what portions of the law are just flat wrong besides this:

Oregon statute Title 37 Chapter 471 §471.403

471.403 License required to produce alcoholic liquor; exception. (1) No person
shall brew, ferment, distill, blend or rectify any alcoholic liquor unless licensed so to do
by the Oregon Liquor Control Commission. However, the Liquor Control Act does not
apply to the making or keeping of naturally fermented wines and fruit juices or beer in
the home, for home consumption and not for sale. (2) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, the holder of a brewery-public house license or a brewery license may allow patrons to brew malt beverages not to exceed 14 percent alcoholic content by volume if the brewing is conducted under the direct supervision of the licensee or employees of the licensee. Malt beverages produced under this subsection may not be sold by the patron or consumed on the licensed premises. [Formerly 471.205]

I didn't see anything in this prohibiting transport? Maybe it's in another Chapter.

Thanks for the timely information on this issue. Where do I find the OHBA? Can't find a web site. Is is just this for now? I will lend my support to this effort. http://groups.google.com/group/oregon-home-brewers-alliance This is the correct approach BTW!!

rico567 said:

What has happened is related to the principle "It's always easier to obtain forgiveness than permission."

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There's a bunch of ways to handle that.

If people just start keeping mum about such things, then they'll be able to keep sharing homebrew - but nothing much will change.

If people start being very 'out' about sharing homebrew, there will be fines and arrests - and the cops will win any confrontation about it.

If people keep mum about what they are doing but at the same time challenge it in court - the odds of success go way up.

billvon said:

If people keep mum about what they are doing but at the same time challenge it in court and the legislature - the odds of success go way up.

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Fixed.

I am certainly not going to NOT bring homebrew to BBQ's this weekend.

Thanks for fighting correctly for all of our sake alliance guys.

This is absurd bureaucracy! Best of luck, Oregon. I just had to lend my vocal support. I hope you guys get together and deal with this in a way that will work out to the best of your interests. I'm sure it will be resolved, but this is a case where the end result needs to be maximized in favour of the homebrew culture.

Dunerunner said:

I agree Denny! So what portions of the law are just flat wrong besides this:

Oregon statute Title 37 Chapter 471 §471.403

471.403 License required to produce alcoholic liquor; exception. (1) No person
shall brew, ferment, distill, blend or rectify any alcoholic liquor unless licensed so to do
by the Oregon Liquor Control Commission. However, the Liquor Control Act does not
apply to the making or keeping of naturally fermented wines and fruit juices or beer in
the home, for home consumption and not for sale. (2) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, the holder of a brewery-public house license or a brewery license may allow patrons to brew malt beverages not to exceed 14 percent alcoholic content by volume if the brewing is conducted under the direct supervision of the licensee or employees of the licensee. Malt beverages produced under this subsection may not be sold by the patron or consumed on the licensed premises. [Formerly 471.205]

I didn't see anything in this prohibiting transport? Maybe it's in another Chapter.

Thanks for the timely information on this issue. Where do I find the OHBA? Can't find a web site. Is is just this for now? I will lend my support to this effort. http://groups.google.com/group/oregon-home-brewers-alliance This is the correct approach BTW!!

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OLCC has ruled that "in the home" means in the home...no xporting it somewhere to drink. IN addition, there's a related law (don't have the code # at my fingertips) that makes it illegal to charge club dues. It is seen as charging for beer.

With luck, the website will be up by Mon. I'll keep you in the loop!

I sent an email to the powers that be and received the following reply:

"In consultation with the Department of Justice, we have received an initial analysis of the statute regulating home brewing (ORS 471.403) which also indicates that the law only allows for consumption of home brews in the home. The home brewers lose their exemption to craft brew without a license when the home brew is consumed outside of the home.

The Department of Justice’s guidance certainly requires us to look at the competitions in a different way than we have before. It’s completely understandable that home beer and wine makers would be disappointed. We know how important the home brew and wine competitions are for artisans and professional hopefuls. We expect a final analysis from the Department of Justice next week. Although we are hopeful that there may be some other way of interpreting this statute to allow these events to continue, we anticipate that the initial analysis will stand.

The OLCC is already working with Representative Mike Schaufler and Senator Floyd Prozanski to draft language for legislative consideration in the next session. We ask that those people who are concerned with this issue help us gain support and cooperation from the legislature to get the law revised and in effect in time for next summer’s fair season.
Please let me know if you have any other questions."

Email him back and remind him that the intent of the law is to prohibit sales of homebrew, not to prevent out-of-home drinking of homebrew.

California and Washington also had to re-write their laws on homebrewing because of similar idiocy. Unfortunately, January is the earliest a new law can be passed.

Beernik said:

Email him back and remind him that the intent of the law is to prohibit sales of homebrew, not to prevent out-of-home drinking of homebrew.

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Everyone knows what the intent is, but it's the letter of the law that they enforce. Just like the policeman who gives you a ticket for speeding, that's their job. The 2 senators mentioned are ones we're working with.

Specifically I was referring to the:

"Although we are hopeful that there may be some other way of interpreting this statute to allow these events to continue, we anticipate that the initial analysis will stand."

The governing board has meetings, probably monthly. You get on the agenda and you as your politician to show up and talk about the legislative intent of the law and see if they will reverse their interpretation.

It's called appealing the board's determination. If you can get your politician involved in appealing it before the board, you may not have to wait for a new law to be passed.

Based on conversations and communications with the OLCC, I think it's pretty unlikely they'd change their interpretation. Even the AHA has said "While the OLCC's change of position caught us all by surprise, since there have been homebrew competitions held in Oregon for over 20 years, the current OLCC position does seem a reasonable interpretation of the actual language in the alcohol code regarding homebrewing". But I'll bring your suggestion up and see what happens.

I would think a 22 year president has been set and, the State Fair as well as numerous County Fairs have been participatory . Indeed, the Oregon Craft Brewing industry sprang from the home brewing community. It is hard for me to believe that as cash strapped as Oregon is that they would want to change their position, after such a long period of time, having ignored the fact that home brewers transport and share their brew.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Well, I don't see that $$ has much to do with it. There's certainly no money to be made or last due to the new interpretation. As the AHA release said, although it's a big change, it's a reasonable interpretation of the law. Maybe the real question is "How did they miss it for the last XXX years?" And lest people think this all started with the state fair, it was well before that. Here's some background. I won't name the person who wrote this letter to the OHBA organizers, but it kinda explains the genesis. That person then contacted Ted Hausotter, who contacted me, and we swung into action.

"We contacted the OLCC in February about the 2010
Slurp-n-Burp as we always have. Everything was OK'ed this year as it had
been the last 5 years. About a month after S-n-B, our rep forwarded
information about the reinterpretation of the statute. She was only trying
to let us know (way ahead of time) that there may be a problem with S-n-B
for next year (2011). From what we know, this entire re-evaluation came
about from either a competition or a homebrewers meeting at Deschutes in
Bend. All we were getting was a heads-up."

I am frankly flabbergasted at this whole thing, given Oregon's rep in the home / craft brew universe. What's next, Congress going to do something sensible?

Denny.......The plot thickens!

So, as it stands; it looks like any competitions in Oregon the remainder of this year are out the window!

Are you still allowed to do BJCP Classes???