My batch sparge efficiency theory was confirmed again

You really experienced guys need to make some videos and put them up here. Seriously. You guys seem to have your S*&t together. Its really hard to understand some of the stuff without seeing it. Just a suggestion if you have the resources. I would be totally willing to donate to a HBT fund of videos if it were to help.

A few have.

Bobby_M: http://www.youtube.com/bobbyfromnj
Yuri_Rage: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=49645

I'd like to video my brew day using my brew stand, but I'm sad to say I don't have a good digital cam corder.

That is f*&king awesome. Wish i knew about this before. Thanks.

For those of you guys who don't mill your own... I've been doing Bobby's method and routinely getting 90% efficiency using a 120 minute mash. I think the 5.2ph stabalizer might have played a small factor too.

Lil' Sparky said:

A few have.

Bobby_M: http://www.youtube.com/bobbyfromnj
Yuri_Rage: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=49645

I'd like to video my brew day using my brew stand, but I'm sad to say I don't have a good digital cam corder.

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How about a digital camera that takes video clips?

Just noticed that from this thread and whats listed on your site, you seemed to have increased your effeciency from 75% to 88-92% using the NMODS.. am i seeing that correctly?

What all did you change to increase the effeciency, if anything?

Bobby_M said:

How about a digital camera that takes video clips?

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I've got a little Nikon that takes great pics but the videos are poor.

I see that this older thread got bumped but I'm not currently advocating a mash out infusion because I found that a no mash out, double sparge produced the same or better efficiency as long as your sparge temp was elevated to about 180F or whatever temp it takes to raise the grainbed near 170F by the second infusion. The method is described at the bottom of this page: www.suebob.com/brew/allgrain.htm

When I posted this thread a while back, I was limiting my sparge infusions to 170F so it makes sense that a hot mash out infusion would boost efficiency. I also think that buying a mill and cranking it down made a difference.

The caveat is, you'll actually lose efficiency if your sparge infusions are less than 1qt per pound. This can easily happen when you do a MODS on a big beer.

Bobby_M said:

I see that this older thread got bumped but I'm not currently advocating a mash out infusion because I found that a no mash out, double sparge produced the same or better efficiency as long as your sparge temp was elevated to about 180F or whatever temp it takes to raise the grainbed near 170F by the second infusion. The method is described at the bottom of this page: www.suebob.com/brew/allgrain.htm

When I posted this thread a while back, I was limiting my sparge infusions to 170F so it makes sense that a hot mash out infusion would boost efficiency. I also think that buying a mill and cranking it down made a difference.

The caveat is, you'll actually lose efficiency if your sparge infusions are less than 1qt per pound. This can easily happen when you do a MODS on a big beer.

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thanks

Bobby_M said:

The caveat is, you'll actually lose efficiency if your sparge infusions are less than 1qt per pound. This can easily happen when you do a MODS on a big beer.

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Why do you think?

Lil' Sparky said:

Why do you think?

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I think sparge infusions under 1qt/lb are not liquid enough to stir well. Maybe that is on the slightly conservative side. It might be closer to .75qt/lb where it becomes too stiff.

I set up four different schedules to see how these infusions play out and I added them to the bottom of my all grain primer page.

Here's one that really shows what I mean. The batch infusions are only .33qts/lb and probably too stiff to stir well. Maybe I'm nuts.

any ideas on benefits/ drawbacks of using a decoction mash out method, instead of just boiling new water? It takes me 5 minutes to bail out some mash and bring it to a boil, so it is a savings on propane in comparison to bringing 50-degree water to a boil.

I have been using only about 1 gal. of the mash in the decoction mash out - maybe not enough to raise tannins to a noticabole point? anyone?

Looks like I missed this thread the first time around.

Bobby's numbers make sense and match the theory:

Mash-out increases efficiency because there is a small amount of starch in barley that is not gelatinized (and thus converted) until you hit temperatures above 70C (160F). Because of that I always recommend to do a mash-out. Contrary to popular home brewer believe, mash-out doesn't denature all enzymes and is not supposed to either. It denatures the beta amylase but kicks a-amylase into overdrive to make sure all starches released during the lauter are converted on their way to the kettle.

Adding another sparge should give you another 3-4% boost in efficiency. A while back I analyzed the lauter efficiency of batch sparging and posted the results here.

On a tangent, brewhouse efficiency should be the same as efficiency into the boiler. Unfortunately Beersmith came up with a different definition and that's what brewers seem to compare these days. In my opinion it should not matter what you leave behind in the kettle when we talk about efficiency. Only mash and lauter matter since losses by leaving wort in the kettle are rather obvious and don't require discussion.

Kai

The reason I don't totally discount brewhouse as something I like to know is because it is the bottom line cost of doing business. You get X amount of 1.xxx wort for Y amount of grain. On a homebrew scale, it doesn't matter all that much but it's nice to know what you're getting out of your bill. If you brewhouse is 5% or more lower than your lauter efficiency, you might want to start looking into better trub separation techniques or learn to flush your plumbing towards the end of kettle drain. In that regard, I keep a 1/2 gallon growler of sanitary water standing by as I'm pumping through my CFC to fermenter. As the kettle is just about to lose siphon, I dump the water in and continue pumping for 3 seconds. That's 1/2 gallon of wort I would have left behind.

Bobby, if you want to know what you are getting, shouldn't you be looking at the volume that actually makes it into the bottles.

I just don't like that Beersmith uses brewhouse efficiency other than the professional brewing community. It's confusing since you don't really know if losses in the trub should also be considered when troubleshooting someone's "Brewhouse efficiency".

Kai

This thread should be stickied for those using batch sparge methods. This thread was most helpfull in my jump from partial mash brews to all grain this past fall. Its a tried and true method for me. Thank you Bobby_M.

I guess as long as the user is aware of what the number means, you can use it...or not. If I guaged efficiency by what made it into the bottle, it would be zero... KEGS!

For mash out what are we talking? 2 quarts boiling water?

It really depends on what's in the mashtun and at what temp. In post #91, you'll see that it took 2 gallons of boiling water (210F anyway) to get me up to an equilized 168F. Granted that was a 11 gallon batch.

Bobby_M said:

On today's batch, I really didn't have much room for a mashout addition so I tried a no mash out, double sparge where the sparge water was hot enough to get the grain bed up to 166F in the first infusion (180F infusion by the way). That running was 1.042. Then I added another batch infusion at 170F and those runnings were 1.022. I obviously left some sugars behind but preboil efficiency was 87.5% Woah. I'm positive that if I threw a gallon of boiling water in for a mash out that I would have broke 90%.

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This is huge to a guy who had a crap day of batch sparging.

Thanks Bobby