All sorts of problems with my online order several questions

so I purchased everything needed to make a dunkle from midwestsupplies.com and for one with leaving for thanksgiving my yeast sat out for a whole week not on ice. Is it possible to still use this or is it done for? (is it worth trying a starter to get it to work or is the yeast to stressed?) Second, they didnt crush my grains even after asking them. I dont want to take the grain to a local shop to mill as it is kind of a slap to the face for them since they are priced higher and i went with someone else. Is there a good way to crush the grains at home? midwestsupplies said to put them in a zip lock bag and use a beer bottle or roller to crush them....seems like alot of work for 12 lbs of grain and could get some really bad yeilds...thoughts?

Where are you in Ohio?

The yeast might still be viable. It's worth trying a starter anyhow.

You can crush the grains like MW described. It's better to have them milled. Maybe someone near you with a mill could help a brotha out?

yeah i am on campus well grandview which is right of OSU campus

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.

As to the crushing issue, for a large amount of grain doing it that way IS a pita, but the only easy alternative is to buy a grain mill. You can get a corona and tweak it. But if you are not wanting to make such an investment so soon, then perhaps seeing if any brewers in your area have a mill.

On the grain crush: It will be a LOT of work and you likely will have terribad efficiency. I would advise against doing it that way, just my opinion.

Agree on the yeast. Try making a starter but I would make it a smallish one and step it up. The viability is prob very low.

I really need to get into making starters.

Throw the yeast in a starter, don't have anything to lose. As far as the grain goes, if you requested to have it crushed then they should make good on it. Not sure what you meant by "asked". I insist on communicating via email and ordering online, there's a record. Still, not a major loss to them just to resend the grains. It's a simple resolution to satisfy a rational customer.

Certainly there has to be something else you need at the local home brew store. The stores in our area, both awesome, have no issues with you bringing in bulk purchased grain and running it through on their crusher. In my experience most shops are pretty cool about it if you frequent the store for other needs. But, I'd leave it to your discretion whether your particular LHBS would be chill with you running the grains through their crusher.

My experience with Midwest has been positive. Did you advise them of the grain situation, say you don't want to crush it yourself, and ask them to send you new grain crushed like you originally asked? They may do that for you, which would give you time to build your starter up before brew day. Also, you say brewing a dunkel - are we talking munich dunkel (a lager) or a dunkelweizen (ale). If it's the lager you definitely want to go the starter route as IMHO one vial of yeast is never sufficient for lager pitching. You can get away with it on some lower gravity ales, but I wouldn't anger the yeast gods with underpitching a lager.

dunkleweizen, I plan on doing a starter no matter what and yes i requested the grains to be crushed and have the reciept to prove it. I aske them more hoping for them to say "our bad we will send some more" I guess I can email back and say its not very feisable to crush 12 lbs of grain and ask if they can resend just the grains.

If I stated on my order for the grains to be crushed and they didn’t well they would owe me replacement grains IMO. I would not go out and but a mill just for someone else’s mess up. I am sure if you ask they will send replacement grains if not dispute the charge. But if you really don’t want to wait then just go to your local HBS and say someone bought you a kit for you birthday or some crap and thy didn’t know you had to crush the grains. I really don’t think that your local shop would mind and if they did its not a shop I would want to do business with anyway.

As for the yeast I agree with everyone else I had a yeast pack that I forgot in a bag for a few days and just doubled my usually starter size and time and then decanted it with no fermentation issue that I could notice.

I don't think that asking them to send out some new grains is a lot to ask at all. A vendor who frequents this site all the time did just that for me.

He never even questioned it. He took one look at my packing slip and shot me an email letting me know that my new grain bill - milled this time - is being shipped immediately. In turn, I purchased a grain mill from them to mill up the batched order.

That's just good business practice imho... Perhaps midwest will step up. Please let us know if they do.

haha So you said screw TheWineMakers Shop. Good move. I know there are several members here in the Columbus area. I'd post asking for aisstance milling your grain for you. I know OhioDad has a mill.

the places here in central ohio are so pricey it is $2.50 a lb for 2-row

ThatGuyRyan said:

...go to your local HBS and say someone bought you a kit for you birthday or some crap and thy didn’t know you had to crush the grains. I really don’t think that your local shop would mind and if they did its not a shop I would want to do business with anyway.

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I'm sorry, that's just tacky.

I would rather take the loss on the grain then to take it to my local/only shop and ask to use their mill. Sure I don't buy everything from them but I also respect they can't afford to beat every internet offer.

I actually just had this conversation with my local shop owner and fully understand where she's coming from.

PT Ray said:

I'm sorry, that's just tacky.

I would rather take the loss on the grain then to take it to my local/only shop and ask to use their mill. Sure I don't buy everything from them but I also respect they can't afford to beat every internet offer.

I actually just had this conversation with my local shop owner and fully understand where she's coming from.

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I don’t see how that is tacky. Asking to use a mill? Seriously you need to come down to earth. Hell I have people come into my office off the street asking if I can pull up directions or fax something for them knowing full well that they are not going to do any business with me and that’s fine its just the neighborly thing to do. How would letting someone use a grain mill hurt their business? If anything that would be a plus for going back and doing business with that business in the future.

ekjohns said:

so I purchased everything needed to make a dunkle from midwestsupplies.com and for one with leaving for thanksgiving my yeast sat out for a whole week not on ice. Is it possible to still use this or is it done for? (is it worth trying a starter to get it to work or is the yeast to stressed?) Second, they didnt crush my grains even after asking them. I dont want to take the grain to a local shop to mill as it is kind of a slap to the face for them since they are priced higher and i went with someone else. Is there a good way to crush the grains at home? midwestsupplies said to put them in a zip lock bag and use a beer bottle or roller to crush them....seems like alot of work for 12 lbs of grain and could get some really bad yeilds...thoughts?

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That sucks, I hope your kit tastes good. I've done 2 kits from midwest, both crap, no more ordering from them.

ThatGuyRyan said:

I don’t see how that is tacky. Asking to use a mill?

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Then why even suggest coming up with a story about it being a birthday present? It's called being deceitful and not a normal behavior assoicated with asking someone to just do a "neighborly" favor. Is that not enough?

We all do it, I do it. Most the time it involves some mega retailer that has actually factored that in and just charged us more from the start because of it. I just happen to have a little more respect for the local shop. They've been nothing but good to me and we go back 15 years.

PT Ray said:

Then why even suggest coming up with a story about it being a birthday present? It's called being deceitful and not a normal behavior assoicated with asking someone to just do a "neighborly" favor. Is that not enough?

We all do it, I do it. Most the time it involves some mega retailer that has actually factored that in and just charged us more from the start because of it. I just happen to have a little more respect for the local shop. They've been nothing but good to me and we go back 15 years.

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I only said that because he said he would feel like its a slap in the face to the store. So I guess I should have said if it would make you feel more comfortable then make up some story. I myself would just tell them that I bought the grain online and it should have been crushed. I know for a fact that none of my local stores would have a problem with that. They know that I buy from other shops in the area and online and they also know that they cant have the best price on everything they sell that’s just business. But you cant hold that against the customer.

I don’t want to argue or drag this out all I am saying is that first Midwest should replace the grain and worse case he should bring it to his local shop and ask to use their mill with no resistance from the shop. I don’t see how using a mill to grind grain purchased else ware is deceitful. I didn’t say steal from them or try to exchange goods that you purchased somewhere else like I guess you do at big box stores. Were talking about using a mill.

Goodbye to this thread and good luck to the OP in getting this fixed.

I agree they should replace it. I bought grains from morebeer and ask that they NOT be crushed, a month later when I brewed, tada, stale crushed grains(they ship in sealed brown paper bags). I called and they immediately sent out fresh unmilled grains.

phatuna said:

I don't think that asking them to send out some new grains is a lot to ask at all. A vendor who frequents this site all the time did just that for me.

He never even questioned it. He took one look at my packing slip and shot me an email letting me know that my new grain bill - milled this time - is being shipped immediately. In turn, I purchased a grain mill from them to mill up the batched order.

That's just good business practice imho... Perhaps midwest will step up. Please let us know if they do.

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Do this.

At least allow them to make the situation right. I'm sure it would go a long way to ensure a future customer.

I wish I were closer. I'd bring my mill over.

good luck and please keep us posted on the results of your inquiry

well i emailed them today and asked if they would replace the grains will milled ones I will keep this forum posted on what they get back with

Got an email back today from midwestsupplies.com They thought i ordered a kit with 1 lb of grain. Once they saw it was 12 lbs they agreed that it would be way to much try and crush on my own. They will be resending me the crushed grain free of charge! They are back on my good list!

Glad they made good. I have heard nothing bad about them.

well they shipped it the same day they said they messed up so i cant complain

Why do people go to an internet forum versus calling the vendor that your ordered from first?

Most online shops I have ordered from have stood behind any mistakes and made them right for me.