Russian Imperial Stout questions

Twice I've brewed the Brewer's Best RIS. The first batch I added 1/3lb lactose and 3/4lb of corn sugar. The second batch was just per the directions and wasn't nearly as good. The first was much, much thicker though I believe that I didn't top off all of my water on accident.

I just got a call from a friend who wants me to brew a batch similiar to the first batch...which was his favorite of all of my brews. The only real catch is that the lactose in the first batch didn't sit well with him. I think he even sharted on it.

What should I do to thicken up the BB kit? Add a pound or two extra of dark DME? He doesn't want me to intentionally cut back on my top off as he's footing the bill and wants as much as possible out of this.

Also, what would happen if I were to add 1/4 - 1/2 lb of carapils to the steep? Would that be going overboard? Sorry, I don't have the BBRIS ingredient list with me at the moment.

Thanks

For body without lactose or much flavor change some carapils or malto dextrin would help. However I think that adding some dark DME would be better than adding sugar or carapils. Maybe some darker caramel malt would help with the sweetness and body also.
I'm not a fan of using non malt sugars unless it is something like a Belgian or IIPA. But I'm still a newbie also.
Craig

Thanks for the reply CBBaron. I'm liking the idea of the caramel malt. I added the lactose and sugars on the recommendation of the lhbs. My intention for adding carapils was simply for the head, not adding body. I suppose that is a bonus. Below is the original recipe for the RIS

6.6lbs plain dark LME
2 lbs plain dark DME
8oz roasted barley
8oz black patent
1lb crystal 60L
1oz Yakima Magnum @ 60
Nottingham yeast

IBU 50-80*
ABV 7-8%
SG 1.070 - 1.080
FG 1.020 - 1.030

* per the Brewer's Best sheet

What would the threshold be for adding more DME? In other words, how high of a FG is undrinkable? He specifically stated that he wanted it "thick and potent". I also know that he loved the flavor of the original so I'd like to keep the flavors balanced towards that. Thanks again.

A number of people don't think its an Imperial Stout until its better than 1.090 (some even say 1.100). So I don't think you would have a problem with a little more malt. You added over a pound of sugar to the original recipe, so I think a pound of DME would not hurt.
I like a really thick and potent RIS also. Just had what I think was a great one from Hoppin Frog Brewery in Akron, OH. BORIS the Crusher. According to the label it is a > 1.1 OG and a 1.048 FG. Most commercial RISs seem to be 9%+ ABV.
I always like looking at other peoples recipes to see what they have used. The best are clones because then you have some idea what the end result should be like.
Craig

I agree, go with more malt. Caramunich could be a nice addition too.

I wish I had that RIS available in my area. Commercial RIS is a bit sparse around here. I love a 'beefy' stout as well. Something I can sip on while it warms up. My friend prefers to chug his (my) stout. I had to hide them before he came over.

I think you just gave me exactly what I was looking for with the OG-FG. How's this for a game plan? Enter the ingredients as is into the tastybrew recipe calculator. Then up the malt until the right gravity is reached. Finally adjusting the hops until I match the original IBU.

I have a ton of Hallertau Tradition 6% hops. Would it be okay to top off my Yakima with those for bittering?

Give it a try and see what happens. It sounds like your friend will drink it even if it isn't what you have in mind!

fezzman said:

I wish I had that RIS available in my area. Commercial RIS is a bit sparse around here. I love a 'beefy' stout as well. Something I can sip on while it warms up. My friend prefers to chug his (my) stout. I had to hide them before he came over.

I think you just gave me exactly what I was looking for with the OG-FG. How's this for a game plan? Enter the ingredients as is into the tastybrew recipe calculator. Then up the malt until the right gravity is reached. Finally adjusting the hops until I match the original IBU.

I have a ton of Hallertau Tradition 6% hops. Would it be okay to top off my Yakima with those for bittering?

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I just recently found a great beer store that also sells home brew supplies. This has allowed me to try out a bigger variety of beers. Ofcourse being in a major metropolitan area helps even if its not a NYC.

Thats how I make recipes. I start with something well rated and make a few additions to hopefully tweek it to my taste. I have found Jamil's recipes http://beerdujour.com/JamilsRecipes.htm from his Brewing Network show to be good starting points.

I think for bittering the type of hop is less important than for late additions. My only concern is with using a low alpha hop to achieve a high level of biterness may result in more wasted work due to the trub.

Also I would definitely listen to Brewpastor or some of the other more experienced brewers over myself. I've only been brewing for 6months and 7 batches. I'm still very much a newbie and learning here all the time.

I'm not sure I would be brewing a good RIS for a friend who chugged it. A RIS should be sipped and enjoyed, not chugged and plastered.

Craig

CBBaron said:

I'm not sure I would be brewing a good RIS for a friend who chugged it. A RIS should be sipped and enjoyed, not chugged and plastered.

Craig

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I totally agree on enjoying the RIS. Since he's investing the money and the time to wait for it then I'll let him enjoy it however he pleases. Why? Well because I know I'll get a few bottles to savor. If this recipe works out to be great then I'll brew a sippin' batch for myself. Little does he know yet, he'll be brewing this batch on his own (with my supervision).

Is 6% considered a low alpha? Yakima is 7%, right? Or could I just stick with the ounce of Yakima and just up my boil volume?

Man, I love brewing.

EDIT: Okay, here's where it stands so far:

6.6lbs plain dark LME
5 lbs plain dark DME
8oz roasted barley
8oz black patent
1lb crystal 60L
1oz Yakima Magnum @ 60
.5oz Hallertau 6% @60
Nottingham yeast
3 gallon boil rather than 2

Giving:
OG 1.095
FG 1.024
IBU 40
ABV 9.2%

Brewpastor, unfortunately Caramunich is not listed on the tastybrew calculator. Is there another common name?

Also, is there a difference between Yakima Cluster and Magnum?

I know that my friend will drink just about anything. I'm still trying to experiment and have a tasty brew on his bill. lol

fezzman said:

Is 6% considered a low alpha? Yakima is 7%, right? Or could I just stick with the ounce of Yakima and just up my boil volume?

Brewpastor, unfortunately Caramunich is not listed on the tastybrew calculator. Is there another common name?

Also, is there a difference between Yakima Cluster and Magnum?

I know that my friend will drink just about anything. I'm still trying to experiment and have a tasty brew on his bill. lol

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Your recipe looks pretty good.
To answer your questions:
High alpha hops are usually 9%+.

Caramunich can be approximated in a recipe by a crystal-50. The color and sugar content is about the same but the flavor is different.

Yes, Cluster is about a 7% alpha hop and Magnum is a 14% hop. I havn't used them so I can't comment on differences in flavor.

Well if he is footing the bill and you are going to get something out of it then go for it.

Craig

Wow, that's a big difference between the two hops. I'll need to recalculate the recipe and probably pick up something with a higher alpha than the hallertau while at the lhbs.

I've got a batch to bottle and tomorrow is supposed to be 80% chance of rain. Looks like the perfect beer day.

Thanks again for all of the input.