When do yeasts get a dry equivalent?

Hi All,
I'm curious if anyone has a sense of how yeasters (yeast producers?, Wyeast etc.) decide which of their liquid yeasts to try to turn into a dry equivalent and how long that process takes. Is it just popularity of the strain or more complicated. For example, the Conan yeast strain seems relatively new in terms of it being offered to home brewers and quite popular among those trying to go after a Heady Topper clone. Can I just sit on my butt and wait a year or two and voila there will be a dry equivalent, or perhaps maybe never? gasp.
Thanks!

They don't.

They're made by completely different companies.

JJ900 said:

Hi All,
I'm curious if anyone has a sense of how yeasters (yeast producers?, Wyeast etc.) decide which of their liquid yeasts to try to turn into a dry equivalent and how long that process takes. Is it just popularity of the strain or more complicated. For example, the Conan yeast strain seems relatively new in terms of it being offered to home brewers and quite popular among those trying to go after a Heady Topper clone. Can I just sit on my butt and wait a year or two and voila there will be a dry equivalent, or perhaps maybe never? gasp.
Thanks!

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The liquid strains aren't available in the dry form. There are some manufacturers who make dry strains, and one or another may be somewhat similar, but there is no equivalent strain from a dry yeast manufacturer to one of the big liquid strain manufacturer's.

I guess that makes the Chico triplets WY1056, WLP001 - and US-05 - an outlier case...

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

I guess that makes the Chico triplets WY1056, WLP001 - and US-05 - an outlier case...

Cheers!

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But they aren't the same. Oh, I know people claim they are the same strain, and maybe they started out from a similar source, but they are not exactly the same.

I think that when I use Wyeast 1056 that it's very similar to S05, but WLP001 seems to be different. It's still not very flocculant, but it clears better than S05 for sure for me, and the flavor is a bit different.

From what I understand. Some yeasts just do not stand up to the drying process very well. So it is difficult to make some strains in a dry version. Also if it is not a strain that is not a big seller it is just not worth the effort to try to make a dry version of that yeast.

I wish that more yeasts were available as dry, but things are getting better. I brew a lot lof Belgians and Saisons and ther have been a few released that are pretty good offerings in the dry version. But still not what is offered in liquid.

Yooper said:

But they aren't the same. Oh, I know people claim they are the same strain, and maybe they started out from a similar source, but they are not exactly the same.

I think that when I use Wyeast 1056 that it's very similar to S05, but WLP001 seems to be different. It's still not very flocculant, but it clears better than S05 for sure for me, and the flavor is a bit different.

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And yet there are plenty of comparos out there that claim they brew beers that are indistinguishable...

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

And yet there are plenty of comparos out there that claim they brew beers that are indistinguishable...

Cheers!

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Maybe. But they are not the same, and not made by the same manufacturer.

I think that S05 and Wyeast 1056 are very similar, and I wouldn't prefer 1056 over S05 (which I don't love). But I use WLP001 and find that it's different than both of those. It's still neutral and "clean" but there is a lack of fruitiness or a sort of "peachiness" that I can get from both S05 and 1056 (more from S05).

Yooper said:

Maybe. But they are not the same, and not made by the same manufacturer.

I think that S05 and Wyeast 1056 are very similar, and I wouldn't prefer 1056 over S05 (which I don't love). But I use WLP001 and find that it's different than both of those. It's still neutral and "clean" but there is a lack of fruitiness or a sort of "peachiness" that I can get from both S05 and 1056 (more from S05).

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Very true. Similar but not the same even though they are supposed to be the same

There are a lot of brewers that claim that .3711 and Belle Saison are the same. I taste a lot of difference beteween them. They are similar but no where the same yeast.

So IMO the dry equivilents are similar but not the same

beergolf said:

Very true. Similar but not the same even though they are supposed to be the same.

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I don't think they are even "supposed to be the same". Nowhere is that written by the makers of the yeast, although homebrewers on the forums say it all the time.

I think they were derived from a similar (or maybe the same) source. But that doesn't make them the same strain now, especially exactly the same.

Yooper said:

I don't think they are even "supposed to be the same". Nowhere is that written by the makers of the yeast, although homebrewers on the forums say it all the time.

I think they were derived from a similar (or maybe the same) source. But that doesn't make them the same strain now, especially exactly the same.

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True. My bad. They were derived from the same strain but are very different now.

Yooper said:

I don't think they are even "supposed to be the same". Nowhere is that written by the makers of the yeast, although homebrewers on the forums say it all the time.

I think they were derived from a similar (or maybe the same) source. But that doesn't make them the same strain now, especially exactly the same.

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well, i think most people got that rumor from this chart on Jamil's site from data apparently from England:

http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm#WLP_vs_Wyeast

how US05 got attached to WLP001/WY1056, i don't know.

i think the OP's question was answered tho when beergolf suggested than many strains don't respond well to they drying process.

motobrewer said:

well, i think most people got that rumor from this chart on Jamil's site from data apparently from England:

http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm#WLP_vs_Wyeast

how US05 got attached to WLP001/WY1056, i don't know.

i think the OP's question was answered tho when beergolf suggested than many strains don't respond well to they drying process.

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Well, sure, they are strains that you can use if your shop only gets White Labs, for example. But I don't think Kristen ever said they were equivalent. They are reasonable substitutions.

But anyway, you're right. Most strains can't be dried and it's expensive to do, so that is why there aren't as many dry strains available.

Yooper said:

Well, sure, they are strains that you can use if your shop only gets White Labs, for example. But I don't think Kristen ever said they were equivalent. They are reasonable substitutions.

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yeah that may be true but I think most people take it as direct equivalent strains.

exhibit A:

https://www.jaysbrewing.com/2011/10/11/white-labs-to-wyeast-chart/

I'm sure a lot of people who read that chart on mrmalty think the same.

But anyway, you're right. Most strains can't be dried and it's expensive to do, so that is why there aren't as many dry strains available.

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Too bad because it would be great to have more dry strains available. They are easy to store, last longer and are generally cheaper.

hint, hint hint..... for the yeast companies....

Copied and pasted from the technical articles section of the Danstar website:

Question-
For a homebrewer, dry yeast is much more convenient than liquid yeast. There are numerous strains of dry brewer's yeast that give very nice results for certain beer styles. However, the variety of dry brewer's yeast seems very limited. I would like to see dry satchels of yeast for making German Weizenbier (like Wyeast 3068), Belgian beers (like Wyeast 1214 etc), and a better selection of dry yeasts for lagers. Can we expect to see a better selection of dry yeasts in the future? What are the technical problems that prevent development of a greater variety of dry brewer's yeast?

Sincerely,
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY

RESPONSE:

This is not so much a technical problem more an economic issue. We would like to supply you with a whole range of different yeast strains but to guarantee competitive prices we produce certain quantities which we have to sell all of or we sell very little of it at perhaps uncompetitive prices. We have to meet our costs. If there would be a significant demand for a specific brewing yeast we would be more than happy to supply it. This is why we introduced our new lager yeast ( Diamond Lager Yeast ) last year.

Tobias

singybrue said:

.....
RESPONSE:

This is not so much a technical problem more an economic issue. We would like to supply you with a whole range of different yeast strains but to guarantee competitive prices we produce certain quantities which we have to sell all of or we sell very little of it at perhaps uncompetitive prices. We have to meet our costs. If there would be a significant demand for a specific brewing yeast we would be more than happy to supply it. This is why we introduced our new lager yeast ( Diamond Lager Yeast ) last year.

Tobias

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Wow, singybrue that is an excellent find!! Thanks! It gives me hope that a few of these newer yeasts could show up in dry form.

So Danstar say its is an economical issue not technical. That suggests it's straightforward to produce different dry strains. Surely with the number of different liquid yeast strains available the demand is there. I for one would prefer to use a specific dry strain of a yeast rather than a liquid just for the time saving. Assuming the quality is the same...

day_trippr said:

I guess that makes the Chico triplets WY1056, WLP001 - and US-05 - an outlier case...

Cheers!

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But there are differences between those. Try side by side blind tests and you'll see.

Yooper said:

Maybe. But they are not the same, and not made by the same manufacturer.

I think that S05 and Wyeast 1056 are very similar, and I wouldn't prefer 1056 over S05 (which I don't love). But I use WLP001 and find that it's different than both of those. It's still neutral and "clean" but there is a lack of fruitiness or a sort of "peachiness" that I can get from both S05 and 1056 (more from S05).

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I FAR prefer 1056 over 05. In fact, I've stopped using 05 and gone back to 1056. I find it much cleaner.