So frustrated I could scream...

This has been, seems like the millionith time, that my homebrew has encountered this problem.

Smell: almost like permanent marker, belgian ale.
Look: hazy
Taste: thin, not good....not drinkable

I used to get this occasionaly with my ales, but since making starters, the problem went away there. Now, a lot of my lagers, primarly light ones, I get this weird smell.

I brewed a Czech Pilsner (all grain), used a 1L starter. Couple of days in primary at 63 degrees than brought it down to about low 50's. Kept it 2 weeks in 50s....checked the gravity and was a bit high....did a rest at 63 degrees for about 4 days, lagered for 3 weeks at 35.

I think it is due to the fact that I didn't make a big enough starter. How big should I make it? I believe Yooper said 4L awhile back? Could this be the reason why my lagers turn out bad?

are you boiling for 90 minutes plus?

HoppyDaze said:

are you boiling for 90 minutes plus?

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No, I boil for 60 mins. How could this effect it?

well you said the problem went away with your Ales when you pitched enough yeast. you do realize that lagers need significantly more yeast than ales right.

the smell could be caused by high fermentation temps or cheap plastic somewhere in your equipment.

the haze could be chill haze, could be low flocculating yeast, could be starch in your brew. make sure your not steeping grain that needs to be mashed, get your brew cold faster and rack out of your brew pot, and switch to a more flocculent yeast.

the taste could be just green beer or not enough carbonation.

Shoemaker said:

No, I boil for 60 mins. How could this effect it?

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When using pilsner malts boiling for 90 minutes is recommended as to release all the DMS...

I don't brew lagers, so I have minimal experience using pilsner but I have read that numerous times from numerous resources.

If your ales dont have this taste and ales typically dont use pilsner....all signs are point at towards the boil time at this point....look into DMS to see if that is your off flavor

Sounds like you got some solventy flavors, underpitched and (depending on the yeast) too hot in the ferment; how long did you condition your lager? At least 4-6 weeks for conditioning. Conditioning will help clear it up. I have found that lager yeast likes to stay suspended.

10gal Helles for me needs a 4-5L starter (1 vial -> 1L for 24 hrs, add 1L wort, another 24 hrs, chill for 24 hrs, decant, add to 4L fresh wort for a couple days, chill, decant, pitch...about a 5-7 days on the stir plate). And primary fermentation @ 50°F from the get go (chilled to 47°F before pitching);

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll make sure to think of it when I make my next lager.

Also, if you want super duper clean, chill your wort to 45°F overnight, then rack wort off the trub into another vessel, oxygenate and pitch your yeast. Makes it MUCH easier to harvest the yeast cake, but an extra PITA step.

this hadn't been said yet.

http://mrmalty.com goto the yeast calculator. I believe your looking at huge starters. Also make sure you decant the old oxidized nasty starter wort.

Its also possible that your water profile has changed. Its worth considering.