Irish moss in extract brew

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blowmax10

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I've been using Irish moss in my extract brews because it was coming with the kits that I was buying so I just kept using it

Someone has recently told me not to use it on an extract brew

They also suggested using gelatin

They told me to get (I forget the brand name) Plain gelatin form the grocery store

Any thoughts on these two subjects?

And what would be the procedure for the gelatin? Times, amounts, ect
 
I've been using the beginner recipes from my LHBS. Done 3 so far, and every one (they're extract + steeping grains) has been fantastic. All called for Irish Moss at 30 mins., even the wheat beer! I don't think it's just a ploy to sell me a little pack of Irish Moss every 5 or 6 batches... it can't equate to all that much in profit! So, since they've all been great beers, I'm sticking to using the I.M. :mug:
 
I think they matter less with extract brews, but they're not strictly necessary in any case. Both gelatin and irish moss are clarifying agents, making a clearer beer and preventing chill haze. Neither really affects taste: if you don't mind cloudy beer it will be just fine to skip them, and longer in aging will clarify on its own. Irish moss goes right in the boil, 1 teaspoon 10-15 minutes before the end. Gelatin goes in your beer a day or so before bottling: dissolve a tablespoon in a cup of water, heat it to 180F, and let it cool somewhat before adding it in. Don't boil it, or it won't work.
 
IMO you should just stick to irish moss- why bother with the process of gelatin after the fermentation when you can get just as good of results with irish moss during the boil?

the only thing i would recommend other than irish moss is whirloc, which is just a condensed tablet of irish moss i believe. my beers were crystal clear with whirloc and cold crashing combined.
 
Whatever you do, don't waste your money on the "Super Moss". I bought some of that and used it on 3 batches, I didn't see much results at all. Switched to whirlfloc tablets and I am pretty impressed.
 
I have always done the moss, but gelatin is far superior to the moss. However, I would not use either most or gelatin in wheat. Don't you want your wheat cloudy?
 
I'd stick with the moss if you're already comfortable with that.

Both the moss an gelatin serve the same purpose.

It just comes down to what you would rather do.
 
Thanks for all the great info!

I have been looking to try the whilfloc

currently my beer is pretty much cloudy all the time, even with Irish moss and cold crashing
 
I've been using Irish moss in my extract brews because it was coming with the kits that I was buying so I just kept using it

Someone has recently told me not to use it on an extract brew

They also suggested using gelatin

They're just showing their preferences in clarifier. Personally, I don't see the need for gelatin: With just Irish moss (or Whirlfloc tablets) and then a cold crash, my beer gets very clear.

If Irish moss is included in your kits, might as well just use that....why spend more money on things that aren't going to make a huge difference? And these clarifiers work equally on extract or all grain: by the time you're pitching the yeast, wort is wort.

As for your current predicament of cloudy beer...was your beer clear when you sampled (and before cold crashing)? You could be experiencing chill haze if that is the case.
 
I know it is chill haze

Honestly, I haven't been too worried about it yet - I been putting my effort into other areas like fermenter temp control, sanitization, ect
 
OK, if it is chill haze....it's particular proteins in the beer that can settle and clear up over time. I assume you're bottling your beer? If so, keeping the bottles in the fridge for awhile.....cold contioning...should help clear up that haze.
 
No, I'm kegging

Recently I started cold crashing my carboys before I rack out of them

I keep meaning to leave them for a week but I always forget

Ever since I started kegging, the quality of my beer has really gone down

This last batch that I did, I filled the keg with star san, purged out the head space with CO2 and then forced the Star San out with CO2 in an attempt to eliminate the possibility of oxidization

I figure that bottle conditioning was removing some of the flaws in my beer that are now leaping out to the front of my kegged/ forced carbonated beer
 
Well the thing about kegging is that it's the same as bottling...only it's just a bigger scale. If you naturally carbonate, you'll have more yeast sediment that you have to let settle. That plus letting your chill haze condition out....some patience will help:D
 
Well the thing about kegging is that it's the same as bottling...only it's just a bigger scale. If you naturally carbonate, you'll have more yeast sediment that you have to let settle. That plus letting your chill haze condition out....some patience will help:D

Do you prefer natural carbonating kegs over force carbonating?
 
Question on the gelatin,

What exactly should I buy? I never heard of unflavored gelatin. Are you talking about Pectin which is used in making jelly? I got two brews from Northern Brewer that need to be bottled very soon and didn't come with Irish Moose and both appear very cloudy.

Bill
 
Question on the gelatin,

What exactly should I buy? I never heard of unflavored gelatin. Are you talking about Pectin which is used in making jelly? I got two brews from Northern Brewer that need to be bottled very soon and didn't come with Irish Moose and both appear very cloudy.

Bill

I did mean of course Irish Moss. Those Irish Moose are more suitable for a Canadian Lager Clone.

:tank:
 
Northern Brewer sales gelatin

I'm not sure what the store bought stuff was
 
The idea that irish moss shouldn't be used probably stems from Palmer's How to Brew. The 3rd edition includes a "Beer Clarity" appendix that discusses possible clarifying agents. The online edition doesn't contain this appendix, though.

I was never good at chemistry so I have no idea what he's talking about, but I think the gist of it is that if too much irish moss is added to the boil the proteins responsible for head retention can drop out (along with the ones that cause haze). The result would be a clear beer, but no head.

Pros and cons, pros and cons...
 
Long story short... I just tasted my most recent brew a Blond Ale which I uesd Irish Moss in and am tasting a fish like off flavor. Is this from the irish moss or from an infection of some sort? Also if caused by the IM will this flavor condition out with some age?
 
Everything I've ever read about Irish Moss has never mentioned that it affects the flavor of your beer; why the hell would people use it if it did? Especially a fish taste, eek.
 
After doing a bit a research I found my issue... I used to damn much IM! 1 tablespoon is not the same as 1 teaspoon. I figure this is what is caused the fish taste. Well you live and you learn.
 
Question on the gelatin,

What exactly should I buy? I never heard of unflavored gelatin. Are you talking about Pectin which is used in making jelly? I got two brews from Northern Brewer that need to be bottled very soon and didn't come with Irish Moose and both appear very cloudy.

Bill

It's not Pectin! Look for Knox unflavored gelatin, probably somewhere near the baking supplies isle.

I know it is chill haze

Honestly, I haven't been too worried about it yet - I been putting my effort into other areas like fermenter temp control, sanitization, ect

Likely you either aren't boiling it hard enough or you aren't chilling the wort fast enough. Do you use an immersion chiller, a counterflow chiller, or an ice bath? If you're still using an ice bath, you should probably get a faster chilling method.

Still doubting that that caused a fish taste.

Have you ever smelled Irish Moss? It has a sea-like scent, perhaps a little fishy. I wouldn't be surprised if an overdose would impart some of that to the beer. I have no idea how to get rid of it, though, other than just letting it age (remember, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/).
 
This is an ancient thread but maybe this could still help someone. Different finings act upon different components to improve clarity of the beer. Opposites attract, like magnets.

Negatively charged finings (e.g., Irish Moss) attract positively charge proteins in the wort.
See Charlie Papazian's The Complete Joy of Homebrewing, 4th edition, p. 113.
Good book, but he often plugs his other book, The Homebrewer's Companion, Second Edition throughout, and that gets a little annoying.
[and as the thread above mentions, some of these proteins may also be ones that contribute to head formation and stability]
(CP recommends 1/4 - 1/2 tsp. in the final 10 minutes of boil rather than 1 tsp for 30 minutes)

On page 114, CP continues, regarding flocculation:
Negatively charged yeast can be removed from suspension by the use of positively charged finings (e.g., gelatin). He gives instructions and agrees that boiling is bad.

But I know I read recently about the use of IM being unnecessary or not recommended for extract beer...

In John Palmer's "How to Brew" (3rd edition), he cautions that too much IM can lead to poor head retention and potentially insufficient levels of Free-Amino Nitrogen (needed for yeast health). p. 280
The summary table on p. 281 includes the statement that IM is "not recommended for ...extract-based worts."
THERE it is!

By the way, Palmer recommends IM in the last 20 minutes of the boil. Ask 5 homebrewers, get 6 opinions.

Reading between the lines, and from using extracts, my guess is that the hot-break proteins that IM would be targeting have already settled out or have been dealt with prior to the evaporation of the wort to make L/DME. Maybe the extract makers have already utilized IM or something similar by that point and adding the "normal" dose may therefore be an overdose in this case, resulting in low FAN / compromised head retention.
 
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