How low can you go when canning pickled vegetables?

[Peter Piper]

As the title suggests, how low of a temperature is safe when pastuerizing vegetables such as cucumbers and peppers? With how popular sous vide devices like anova ect, ect its very easy to accurately hold temps for long periods of time. Lately i have been filling my jars with the exact amount of vegetables and brine then transferring to a sous vide bag along with some calcium chloride and holding at 145F for 30 minutes then back into the jar and kept in the fridge for a week, then eaten within a month.

It seems to work really well, and the texture is similar to Claussen ( even though they claim never cooked ) So it got me wondering if i decided to store these on a shelf at room temperature, what would be the absolute lowest water bath/sous vide temperature and time to make sure they are fully pastuerized and safe to consume? Suprisingly there is plent of temp/times for meats and poultry, but very little information about vegetables. Every article i found and read, has the same 180F/30 minute process temp/time. This temperature produces a softer texture that is not to my liking.

Anyway, i would love to here from other picklers on this subject.

Thanks.

 

[Agent]

I like pickles. A lot. I put up 80-100 quarts a year. So this topic is dear to me, and I'm always interested in making them better. So far, the 180F/30min with CaCl2 has been the best official shelf stable one I've found. But it's still OK - I happened into a free 5 gallon pail of refrigerator pickle spears and was back in hog heaven for a month.

The biggest issue is that the NCHFP guidelines likely have significant safety factors built-in, and I doubt you can pull up the actual research showing the actual data.

Now, I just happened upon this oldie of an article : USDA ARS Online Magazine Vol. 62, No. 6


Of note, I saw “What we found was that it took less than 1.2 minutes at 160°F (71°C) in a brine at pH 4.1 to get a 5 log reduction.” which tells me that somewhere in the 130-145F range could be made safe with a reasonable amount of time.

Two caveats.

First, jars must be sterilized prior to filling and pasturizing, since only the part in continuous contact with the liquid will be sanitary.

Second, when renegade canning, you need to remember that you are responsible for the health and safety of those you serve this stuff to. So what I'm comfortable serving to my family may not be something to bring to a potluck full of strangers.

 

[Peter Piper]

Interesting. This article is from USDA.gov and it lists temps of 140F, 160F, and 180F at 15 minutes. It says experimental so i don't know if these tests are safe or not.
Anyway, heres a link to the aticle. Its in PDF format.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/60701000/Pickle Pubs/p15.pdf

 

[Closet Fermenter]

As the Agent indicates above in not so many words, you can do whatever you like if you’re willing to accept the risks.

I have been canning for over 35 years and never gotten sick from anything that I have put up. That being said, it pays to strictly follow the guidelines. Botulism is my biggest fear. If I remember correctly, it takes temperatures over 240° to kill the spores in low acid foods, so simply boiling won’t do the job; you need 10# of pressure in a pressure canner to to get there. On the other hand, most healthy adults can handle a few of the spores without problems. What we can’t tolerate is the botulin toxin, which is extremely deadly. I think I have read that a teaspoon of the toxin is enough to kill 100K people! The good news is that temperatures exceeding 150° deactivates the toxin. So, thoroughly heating canned foods is a key safety measure.
Pickles done at the right temperature should deactivate any toxins present, and the acid levels from the added vinegar should take care of the spores so no new toxins are formed.

I had a friend who lost her grandmother who sampled her sauerkraut before heating it up. I heard that 35 years ago, and decided that it’s not worth the risk.

Don’t take my word for it; do your own research. I may have mixed things up. But one thing I don’t do is experiment or take chances with canning foods.

Canning and eating home grown vegetables is great! My mother is in her 80’s and still does it, too. I hate to think that I would have to resort solely to commercially produced foods. So, be safe, and enjoy it!

 

[Oldskewl]

I have used the 180F for 30 minute method the last 2 years with excellent results. No CaCl. But I do add horseradish leaves or bay leaves for their tannins. Best canned pickles so far for me. Not sure I want to risk going much lower when this method works so well.

https://homesteadingfamily.com/how-to-make-pickles/