Help me figure out what went wrong

So I recently did my first AG; an amber ale. Here is the recipe and my notes.

Type: All Grain
Date: 4/7/2007
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Brewer: Dan Withers
Boil Size: 7.15 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (6+gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (5 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0
Taste Notes: Taste is thin, a bit nutty; very very bland.

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
9.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Maris Otter Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 85.7 %
0.75 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 7.1 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4.8 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.4 %

0.50 oz Newport [11.00%] (60 min) Hops 17.8 IBU
0.50 oz Newport [11.00%] (45 min) Hops 16.3 IBU
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50%] (30 min) Hops 5.6 IBU
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50%] (15 min) Hops 3.6 IBU
0.25 oz Fuggles [4.50%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc

1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.4 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.2 %
Bitterness: 43.3 IBU Calories: 241 cal/pint
Est Color: 17.3 SRM Color:


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 10.50 lb
Sparge Water: 5.38 gal Grain Temperature: 70.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 150.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 13.13 qt of water at 168.8 F 156.0 F 60 min



Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Corn Sugar Volumes of CO2: 2.4
Pressure/Weight: 4.0 oz Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 60.0 F Age for: 28.0 days
Storage Temperature: 52.0 F

Notes

Added grains and water slowly together and mixed. It took about 3 additions for everything to come together.
Initial strike water was 166, it ended up about 3 degrees too low. Added approx 1.5 gallons of strike water at 174 to hit strike temp of 156.
Checked and stirred 1/2 hour into mash; temp 155.
Mash ended at 153
Drained into HLT-total of 1 3/4 gallons
Sparged with 4 gallons at 175 F; I did not batch sparge correctly. I did not bring the mash up to 170 and then drain. I drained as I added sparge water. This was where I went wrong on this brew I think.
Sparged with 2 gallons at 175
Topped off with .5 gallons of tapwater for a total of 9.50 gallons to reach 7.25 gallons into the kettle. Final volume is approx 5.20 gal for a total of 2 gal lost to evap. about a quart lost to trub.
Added hop additions as per recipe along with yeast fuel at 15 minutes.
Cooled to 65 in approx 8 minutes, transferred to carboy and aerated. Had to strain the last gallon of water through the strainer into a funnel as my bazooka tube is placed a little too high.
Pitched pacman starter at 65 degrees at 2pm.
A little fermentation as of 0800 Sunday morning, by Monday there was full blown action. Very little kreusen but plenty of action fermenting at 62 degrees-perfect for Pacman!
Thursday 13 Apr- hydro reading was 1.014. It's still fermenting. Taste was bland with a hint of woody-ness. Almost no hop aroma, dry hop with some fuggle in secondary.
Sunday 15Apr- Hydro reading 1.013, taste is still pretty bland and watery; a bit of a toasty or nuttiness to it. Not sure what happened with this one. I will rack to secondary sometime this week.


So that's it. Is it the recipe or my methods..besides the batch sparging thing, I still got pretty good efficiency. This beer literally tastes like water.


Thanks

Dan

I don't know man. I say wait and see how it is after a month or so in the bottles/keg. I have such a hard time judging how a batch will really turn out from tasting it at racking/bottling.

Lil' Sparky said:

I don't know man. I say wait and see how it is after a month or so in the bottles/keg. I have such a hard time judging how a batch will really turn out from tasting it at racking/bottling.

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It's too late it is officially dumped. When I say this beer tastes like water, I'm not kidding. No body, no flavor no nothing. Even when I did all extract brews they had more flavor than this one did. Live and learn..the only thing I can think is that the malts I used just didn't add anything flavor wise...and the newport hops had no aroma and there was no bitterness either..the beer was just lifeless.


No more configuring recipes until I know what I'm doing.


Dan

You really dumped it out? The only beer I've ever had that's been that bad tasted like a cigar after I burnt an inch of beer in my keggle after a retarded modification. I wouldn't have dumped it.

There's nothing wrong with your recipe. I can't imagine what went wrong. Your mash temps look good, OG looks good, etc. You should definately have some good distinct taste, from you hop schedule if nothing else.

Have you looked into your water report? I think if your residual alkalinity is too low, you won't get the bright hop flavors.

Just a thought... where did you get your grains? Did you taste them before you mashed in? I usually do. I just wonder if they were stale.

The next time you get a batch like that and want to dump it, I can think of at least one good home for that beer...

Lil' Sparky said:

You really dumped it out? The only beer I've ever had that's been that bad tasted like a cigar after I burnt an inch of beer in my keggle after a retarded modification. I wouldn't have dumped it.

There's nothing wrong with your recipe. I can't imagine what went wrong. Your mash temps look good, OG looks good, etc. You should definately have some good distinct taste, from you hop schedule if nothing else.

Have you looked into your water report? I think if your residual alkalinity is too low, you won't get the bright hop flavors.

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I'm sending my water off to get a breakdown on it. I was amazed that there was almost no hop aroma, flavor or bitterness with the Newport hops...but it just wasn't there. I am as surprised as any of you, but it was water.
I bought some Five Star PH 5.2 to use in my next batch until I get my water report back.


Dan

Lil' Sparky said:

Just a thought... where did you get your grains? Did you taste them before you mashed in? I usually do. I just wonder if they were stale.

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I got them from AHS, but no I didn't taste them. I should have, and I will make sure to with the upcoming batch.


Dan

Trappist Artist said:

The next time you get a batch like that and want to dump it, I can think of at least one good home for that beer...

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I offered it up to a buddy of mine and he turned it down..said the same thing I did. No flavor..it didn't even smell like beer really.


Dan

I love the BB's though..I poured the whole thing out and the hops (2oz of cascade) flowed right out. So much easier than trying to get them out of a carboy.

If it was AHS, then it was fresh. They do some enormous volume - the last order I made I sent an email when it didn't ship out the first day and they said I was still behind ~ 70 other orders!

The pH 5.2 may make a big difference if it's your water.

Lil' Sparky said:

If it was AHS, then it was fresh. They do some enormous volume - the last order I made I sent an email when it didn't ship out the first day and they said I was still behind ~ 70 other orders!

The pH 5.2 may make a big difference if it's your water.

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Yeah thats the only thing I can think of. I will wait and see how my water profile works out, but until then I am hoping the 5.2 will work it out for me.


Dan

with all grain its a really good idea to START with a tried and true recipe, then "if" you have problems you can trouble shoot from there. just a thought
if you want a really easy and very tried and true recipe for a pale ale " its a house favorite" just let me know
JJ

jaybird said:

with all grain its a really good idea to START with a tried and true recipe, then "if" you have problems you can trouble shoot from there. just a thought
if you want a really easy and very tried and true recipe for a pale ale " its a house favorite" just let me know
JJ

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Yeah I totally agree..it was definitely a little adventurous of me. My next AG is going to be this weekend and it is a recipe from one of the guys on here. It's a blonde..pretty straight forward. PM your way though on your Pale ale. I am going to need a bunch of recipes as I'm hoping to step up my brewing.

Oops, PM is full. care to post it here? Or PM me when you get a chance! Thanks!

Dan

Waste not want not. You could have dressed the beer up a bit in the secondary. In BeerAdvocate Mag last month's vol talks about how to dress brew gone wrong up to be excellent beer. There was an account where a homebrewer added stuff to the secondary after redeeming the brew to be Aweful. He entered it into a contest after adding the fix and won bronze.

There are ways to save.

- WW

Can we please take a moment of silence for the departed.........

wilsonwj said:

Waste not want not. You could have dressed the beer up a bit in the secondary. In BeerAdvocate Mag last month's vol talks about how to dress brew gone wrong up to be excellent beer. There was an account where a homebrewer added stuff to the secondary after redeeming the brew to be Aweful. He entered it into a contest after adding the fix and won bronze.

There are ways to save.

- WW

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Yeah I probably could have done something...possible a second boil with some grains and lactose or something for body and flavor. Maybe next time...well hopefully there won't be a next time


Dan

I have had a similar experience, unfortunatly I too can not tell you why. I made a Sam Adams clone that was almost like water right from the start but yet my bext batch, a stout, was the best beer I have ever made.

beerfan said:

I have had a similar experience, unfortunatly I too can not tell you why. I made a Sam Adams clone that was almost like water right from the start but yet my bext batch, a stout, was the best beer I have ever made.

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Yeah..I'm thinking thats what my next batch will be as well. It's a tried and true recipe and I understand the process a lot better now. I enjoyed the process so much more with AG than I did with extract..can't wait to brew this week! It will be my first after work late night brew


Dan