Issues decocting

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

knowltonm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
137
Reaction score
1
Location
Hudsonville, MI
I'm under way with my 2nd decoction brew, and I'm again low on the temps. I pulled the recommended volume (maybe slightly less) from beersmith, boiled, dumped back to the main mash, and I came up at least 13 degrees short on the intended rest temp. I had 11.6 pounds grain, doughed in with 18qt water and hit 137-138 degrees. Pulled the intended 6.8 quarts, probably a little less, boiled, returned to the pot to hit 158, and only got to maybe 145. The main mash was at 135 when I returned the decoction. Any ideas? Thanks!
 
I have the same thing happen offen and I think it is because when you pull lets say 4 quarts out how much is thick and how much is thin.
 
I had the same problems when I started decoction mashing. As Kaiser rightly pointed out to me (have you watched his videos? well worth the time!) you can very easily pull more than you think you need (indeed I found that I had to). Add it slowly back into the main mash after boiling and stir well until you reach your desired temperature.

Any leftover grains can simply be held over in the decoction kettle until the next step. Since they have already undergone conversion prior to the boil you won't lose the sugars that have already been created.
 
Yeah, I watched his videos, they were great and they are the only reason I started to try it. Before them I always thought it was too complicated, but it's really quite simple. As for pulling more than I need, I will definitely be doing that next time. When I was pulling it out I felt like I was taking most of the grain, so I stopped a little short probably. Stupid move, but it's a learning experience. Hopefully my 1.5lb cara-pils will offset the low rest temp. Next time I will be sure to decoct a higher volume.

I'm currently close to boiling on more water which I'll add some of to get the temp up a little.
 
After a couple of time having the same results as you, I've found that I have to just about double the BeerSmith recommendation. There may be settings in the program to adjust for this, but I haven't found them. You're better off with too much. I just let any leftover sit until it has cooled to the step temperature before adding it to the mash.
 
I just let any leftover sit until it has cooled to the step temperature before adding it to the mash.

This ran through my mind as I was pulling the decoction, but for some reason (maybe it was the rum and coke) I thought I had enough. Thanks for the input guys, next decoction, whenever it may be, will be a much larger volume than called for!
 
Well, I added water to bring the temp into the 150s, basically used all my 6qt that were supposed to bring it up to 167 or 168, but conversion was complete with my iodine test, and the sparge went perfectly with my new sparge arm. I think It'll all turn out ok, the boil just started a few minutes ago.
 
Any other thoughts on how I could have dealt with this situation? I think I handled it alright, but I am nowhere near at the level as many of the people on here. Thanks!
 
I'm under way with my 2nd decoction brew, and I'm again low on the temps. I pulled the recommended volume (maybe slightly less) from beersmith, boiled, dumped back to the main mash, and I came up at least 13 degrees short on the intended rest temp. I had 11.6 pounds grain, doughed in with 18qt water and hit 137-138 degrees. Pulled the intended 6.8 quarts, probably a little less, boiled, returned to the pot to hit 158, and only got to maybe 145. The main mash was at 135 when I returned the decoction. Any ideas? Thanks!

You didn't pull enough grain out for the decoction. It's a common error. IMO you should do the pull by weight and you have to figure the entire weight of the mash, grain and water. Weigh one of your scoopfuls to be able to do a more accurate pull. With 11.6 pounds of grain and 18 quarts of water your mash would weigh about 48 pounds. One third of that is 16 pounds and I doubt the 6.8 quarts you pulled weighed that much. Another thought is, how long did you boil the pull? The decoction needs to be boiled and stirred for at least five minutes just to make sure all the solids are up to temperature. Boiling should be done for at least 15/20 minutes to get some good starch breakdown and Maillard Reaction action going. 30 to 40 minutes is even better. If you only did a quick boil much of the stuff in the pot won't be up to 212F. Done correctly you should expect about a 20F rise in temp per decoction. When you come up short you can just pull more mash and do another boil or toss in some boiling water for small adjustments.

:mug:
 
Good info guys I will try the weight method. I should save this for a newbie when he want to learn................. Hey you want to learn how to do a Decoction........
 
Good info guys I will try the weight method. I should save this for a newbie when he want to learn................. Hey you want to learn how to do a Decoction........

Here ya go. These are my simplified instructions for the method.

DECOCTION, What is it?

Decocting is a method of multi-temperature mashing that utilizes removing and then boiling and reincorporating portions of the mash to raise the temperature. It is said that the method developed centuries ago in central Europe many years before the invention of the thermometer. Decoctions were also a way for these early brewers to deal with the poorly malted grains of the time and obtain good starch conversion.

WHY SHOULD I BOTHER?

Well, you don't have to if you don't want to. Unless specifically designated all modern malts are well converted and will mash successfully with a single temperature infusion. However, there are those of us in the decoction underground who feel that there are positive side effects on the taste of the beer which decoction mashing provides, not obtainable with other methods.

During the boiling of the mash portion (the decoction "pull") a couple of significant changes take place. First, the heat and mechanical action of the boil break down the granules of starch making them more easily accessible to the conversion enzymes. This breakdown of starch particles will usually mean that a decoction yields a bit more conversion efficiency than an infusion mash on the same malt.

Second, via the Maillard reaction sugars and proteins undergo a process that creates melanoidins and other tasty compounds. This is very similar to what happens when sugar is caramelized in a saucepan or a steak is grilled. These melanoidins provide the subtle enhancements in flavor and color that only a decoction can give you.

HOW DO I DO IT?

You will need a decoction vessel, a stirring tool and a burner, preferably with an accurate flame control. The decoction vessel can be any non-reactive cooking pot large enough to comfortably hold the pulled mash. I use a 20 quart stainless steel stock pot and a large wooden spoon to stir. A scoop of some kind will also be needed to remove mash from the tun. I find a plastic-handled stainless steel strainer works well. A small pan or ladle can be used but a strainer allows the liquid to easily drain from the pulled mash when scooped.

Mashing in thick with a decoction is the way to go. I use a 1 Qt: 1 Lb water:grain ratio. The mash will thin out as you go and chances are you will add some water during the process. With a 1:1 ratio the total weight of the mash will be 2/3 water and 1/3 grain. For me this simplifies measuring the amount of mash to be pulled for decoctions. The ROT is 1/3 of the total mash by weight but in practice a little more, say 40%, is what I generally use.

Commercial breweries doing decoctions use steam heated kettles. The direct flame of a homebrew system does increase the chance of scorching and burning, things to obviously avoid. To take out some anti-scorch insurance I like to start the decoction vessel with a couple of quarts of water and bring it to the boil. This also adds a little bit of a heat fudge factor as you may be likely to undershoot your temps some on your first try. It is also probably a good idea to have both boiling and cold water on hand for quick emergency temp adjustments.

Most of my decoctions are "singles" with a short protein rest at ~130F for 15 minutes and then a jump to sugar rest ~152F for 60 minutes. A decoction to mashout is usually added at my brewery too. Typically the rise in temperature from a decoction will be 20 to 22 deg F although YMMV. Once you get the hang of it you may be surprised how accurate the temperature steps can be. Of course if you wanted to do more steps just start at a lower temperature. The "ultra traditional" historic decoction would be mashed in with cold water and proceed to acid rest, low protein, high protein and sugar rests. I've never gone this far but I have done a couple starting at the acid rest temperature of 95F.

OK you've mashed in and you have the decoction vessel ready. Pull 1/3 to 40% of the mash by weight taking as little liquid as possible and add it to the decoction vessel. Keep stirring CONSTANTLY even if you have started with a little water in the pot. Almost immediately you will start to see the color of the decocted mash darken, this is normal. Also don't worry about the beer being too dark. A double or even triple decoction with pils malt still will make a beautiful light colored beer. Keep stirring and don't forget to check the temperature. When the decoction reaches the next rest temp turn off the heat, cover and let sit for 15/20 minutes.

After resting the decoction add more heat and continue stirring until the whole thing starts to boil and bubble. (you can also do a short rest at mashout temp if you want to go nuts) Keep stirring and boiling for at least 10 minutes, more if you want. I usually do 25 to 35 minutes. Kill the heat and immediately add the boiled mash to the mash tun. Mix and stir thoroughly until the temperature is uniform. If the stars were aligned you will be right at your target temp. If not you can adjust down with cold water. If low by only a degree of two leave it or add some boiling water to adjust. If the temp is way off on the low side you probably got scared and didn't pull enough mash for the boil. In that case just pull some more, bring it quickly to boil and dump it back into the mashtun.

That's about it. Everything else you do is just like any other brew. :mug:
 
Back
Top