Beer and Friends....

Now I know some of you have this problem too. I have been brewing for a few years now and it is a huge passion for me. A lot of my friends have tasted my beer and some have asked me to brew up kegs for special events. I am flattered by the request and love doing it. They want to "pay" me since they realize that while the beer is "free", the grains, hops, propane, etc... do cost me money. I was thinking about just saying each keg is 50 bucks IF they want to pay me. Does that sound fair? I guess they could also just give me some money in advance so I could go buy the supplies. I enjoy seeing others drinking my beer but I just don't want to be broke providing free beer.

No matter how you word it or time it, if you accept money in any way you are the same as a moonshiner in the eyes of the government. I would recommend not accepting any kind of money whatsoever. Find another way for your friends to return the favor.

Legally speaking you would probably need to have them just pay for the supplies you are using. Personally, I have declined such offers just because I don't have much space and I don't want to baby a brew for a month and a half which I will not be able to enjoy. I've only got 2 carboys and 2 kegs which I need to keep my own pipeline supplied.

...and please don't quote me on the legal part of that, I'm just speculating. Try to read up on that.

Why not have them buy you a gift certificate to the LHBS to pay for the ingredients, brew it, then keep half for yourself? There's nothing illegal about freinds giving each other gifts right?

One of my buddies brings my grain bags, various types of hops and just this evening a freshly charges CO2 bottle with gauges on it.

I am more than happy to hand him a keg or two

Gift certificate idea is a good one!! That might work.

You're completely unlikely to get into any trouble if a friend slides you $50 for doing something nice. Geez these responses are so predictable. I hope you own the kegs, instead of Miller or something, or there's likely to be a lynching around here...

Oh, you bunch of namby-pambys! Quit talking like ATF is gonna track down "Phunhog" and drag him off in shackles. $50 for a 5 gallon keg is what I'd "theoretically" charge a casual friend/acquaintance. Real friends would be more like $40 a keg, again in "theory," whatever it takes to keep the anonymous voices on this thread calm. I suppose what you charge would also depend on what you're paying in ingredient costs, what kind of beer they want, etc. I see no harm or danger AT ALL in charging friends for some unlicensed brew. Hell, your friends have no qualms about drinking your beer for free all day and all night, so why should we get squeamish about charging them for it if it's going to be truly "theirs?" At the end of the day, you're doing them a huge favor, considering most every batch is going to total some 10 hrs of your time from milling the grain to bottling/kegging the batch, plus occupy space in your pipeline. What's 10 hours of physical labor worth to you? $20 profit? Hardly. It's a FAVOR for you to sell it to them at such a low price... so I say go for it. Might have to not talk about it on here though -- some touchy folks in our ranks apparently.

WhiskeyR said:

You're completely unlikely to get into any trouble if a friend slides you $50 for doing something nice. Geez these responses are so predictable. I hope you own the kegs, instead of Miller or something, or there's likely to be a lynching around here...

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here here! :rockin:

bigbeergeek said:

Oh, you bunch of namby-pambys! Quit talking like ATF is gonna track down "Phunhog" and drag him off in shackles. $50 for a 5 gallon keg is what I'd "theoretically" charge a casual friend/acquaintance. Real friends would be more like $40 a keg, again in "theory," whatever it takes to keep the anonymous voices on this thread calm. I suppose what you charge would also depend on what you're paying in ingredient costs, what kind of beer they want, etc. I see no harm or danger AT ALL in charging friends for so unlicensed brew. Hell, your friends have no qualms about drinking your beer for free all day and all night, so why should we get squeamish about charging them for it if it's going to be truly "theirs?" At the end of the day, you're doing them a huge favor, considering most every batch is going to total some 10 hrs of your time from milling the grain to bottling/kegging the batch, plus occupy space in your pipeline. What's 10 hours of physical labor worth to you? $20 profit? Hardly. It's a FAVOR for you to sell it to them at such a low price... so I say go for it. Might have to not talk about it on here though -- some touchy folks in our ranks apparently.

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We're "touchy" because we don't allow or encourage discussions of illegal behavior?

What you do in your life is your choice, but talking about illegal activity on this forum is NOT. Selling homebrew is illegal. Many of us are active in organizations trying to make homebrewing legal in every state, and lobby for that right. To say we're "namby pambys" because we strive to preserve these rights and not encourage illegal behavior is ignorant.

Yooper said:

We're "touchy" because we don't allow or encourage discussions of illegal behavior?

What you do in your life is your choice, but talking about illegal activity on this forum is NOT. Selling homebrew is illegal. Many of us are active in organizations trying to make homebrewing legal in every state, and lobby for that right. To say we're "namby pambys" because we strive to preserve these rights and not encourage illegal behavior is ignorant.

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Hear, hear! :rockin:

Yooper said:

We're "touchy" because we don't allow or encourage discussions of illegal behavior?

What you do in your life is your choice, but talking about illegal activity on this forum is NOT. Selling homebrew is illegal. Many of us are active in organizations trying to make homebrewing legal in every state, and lobby for that right. To say we're "namby pambys" because we strive to preserve these rights and not encourage illegal behavior is ignorant.

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+1

@OP I like to idea of a gift certificate but not in exchange for beer. I think most of us would appreciate a "Happy Belated Groundhog's Day" card that had a surprise gift cert to an online or local LHBS. Also, as a general rule of thumb, if you think you may be treading into a legally questionable area it is best to just not post about it on the internet.

While I genuinely appreciate your activity to promote homebrewing and moderate this site, it is a fact that many laws which restrict what we can and cannot do with ethanol are outdated or downright repressive. A member of this forum is posing a question about something that MANY MANY MANY of us have some experience with, whether it's recognized as "legal" or not. Discussion of illegal activities might be against the rules of this forum, but it's rampant -- everything from violating building codes to annual gallons brewed to distillation are tossed around here. This site is intended to provide homebrewers with experience and information they cannot find anywhere else on the internet -- not just quote legal code at them. We all know what's legal and what isn't -- the OP wasn't asking if it was legal. I feel answering the question frankly from a perspective of experience, rather than becoming squeamish at the though of discussing it, is helpful for the OP, so that's what I did. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but c'mon -- the homebrewer's motto isn't "obey every rule possible."

Zamial said:

+1

@OP I like to idea of a gift certificate but not in exchange for beer. I think most of us would appreciate a "Happy Belated Groundhog's Day" card that had a surprise gift cert to an online or local LHBS. Also, as a general rule of thumb, if you think you may be treading into a legally questionable area it is best to just not post about it on the internet.

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See what I mean? This seems silly to me. No one in the world is going to do this, so why post it here?

"We're disobeying an unjust law. We're patriots! Like...all those people in jail."

Okay, back on point here, before this thread completely dives into locked territory. To the OP, I note that you have a link to check out your nanobrewery. Are you currently licensed to sell beer?!?

Anyway, I think the people advising you to look further into this issue are giving you sound advice. Take it for what it's worth.

OP here...Sorry I didn't mean stir things up. My FB page says "non commercial nanobrewery" on it, just thought it sounded "cooler". Anyways I was just looking for some advice. My friends want beer for parties and they want to give me "something" in return. I respect all the mods but I do think it is kinda funny that they are uptight about this subject. HBT has a whole forum about doing "beer trades" both commercial and homebrewed. I am sure trading beers across the country isn't exactly "legal".

lol'ed.

bigbeergeek said:

See what I mean?

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Nope.

bigbeergeek said:

This seems silly to me. No one in the world is going to do this, so why post it here?

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So, you are saying I should not get you a card then? fine by me...

The FASTEST way to kill a thread that is circling the toilet is to start up a legal debate, involve politics and attack mods. So far we are headed straight for it.

As for building codes? I never have seen a post here talking about intentionally violating them...or anything like that...

As for thinking the laws are out dated... I agree with you. However there is a right way and a wrong way to change things. Every person that GETS CAUGHT makes the rest of us look bad and sets back efforts to change things.

I can not speak for anyone else on this but I go out of my way to not break laws because I brew beer. I could grow dope up to the ceiling, run a still, make meth and run a speakeasy/whore house but when the cops come up my driveway to "investigate my equipment" I will invite them to see my home brewery, inside my home and out. Invite them to enjoy a pint after they get off duty. I try to set a positive image in the eyes of my neighbors and community, BECAUSE I want the laws changed...

"One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Zamial said:

Nope.

So, you are saying I should not get you a card then? fine by me...

The FASTEST way to kill a thread that is circling the toilet is to start up a legal debate, involve politics and attack mods. So far we are headed straight for it.

As for building codes? I never have seen a post here talking about intentionally violating them...or anything like that...

As for thinking the laws are out dated... I agree with you. However there is a right way and a wrong way to change things. Every person that GETS CAUGHT makes the rest of us look bad and sets back efforts to change things.

I can not speak for anyone else on this but I go out of my way to not break laws because I brew beer. I could grow dope up to the ceiling, run a still, make meth and run a speakeasy/whore house but when the cops come up my driveway to "investigate my equipment" I will invite them to see my home brewery, inside my home and out. Invite them to enjoy a pint after they get off duty. I try to set a positive image in the eyes of my neighbors and community, BECAUSE I want the laws changed...

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Amen!

bigbeergeek said:

"One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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Well done! You've defined false equivalence very nicely.
OP, just go to dinner with your friends and let them pay. After all, homebrewing (in my mind) is largely about enjoyment. Not fighting the man...

This is over.

If you want to steal kegs, make over 200 gallons of beer a year, sell homebrew, drive over the legal speed limit, steal milk crates, smoke some weed, whatever- no one cares.

But when you post it on a forum that strictly forbids talking about illegal activies, and continue even when asked to stop, it's way over the line. This is not a debate forum. If you want to debate it, move the conversation over to the Debate Forum. You don't have to like the rules here- that's the beauty of the internet. There are other forums that may be more to your liking.