Help with Hop Schedule

So I am making my first IIPA on Saturday...Somewhat similar to Pliny

10 Gallon Batch
Here are the hops I have...I was thinking about an ounce or 2 as first wort hopping, then of course the boiling and flame out. I was also planning on some Dry hopping in the secondary or Primary after a couple weeks.
I will have time to buy more hops for Dry hopping if Necessary but this is what I have for Saturday at least.

6oz Centennial Pellet
1oz Centennial Fresh
3oz Citra Pellet
1oz Citra Fresh
8 oz Columbus Pellet
3 oz Amarillo Pellet

80 to 90 minute boil?

Here is my plan so far
First wort = 1oz Fresh Centennial, 1oz Columbus Pel
80 minutes = 1oz Amarillo, 1oz Columbus,
60 minutes = 1oz Citra, 1oz Centennial
40 minutes = 1oz Columbus, 1oz Amarillo
20 minutes = 1oz Centennial, 1oz Columbus
5 minutes = 1oz Centennial, 1oz Citra Fresh
Flame out = 1oz Columbus, 1oz Centennial, 1oz Citra, 1oz Amarillo

Dry hop starting after 5 -6 days
Centennial and Columbus

What are the board's thoughts on this...
OG aiming for about 1.075~ I know the IBU calcs say that is a lot of IBUs

Is that too much? Too Little?
I just tried Fegely's Hop'solutely and Loved it! But Pliny is still the standard!

Why so many bittering adds? I'd compress the 80, 60, and 40 into one add at 60 or 80. I'd probably also back off on them a bit and use those hops later in the boil or load them up in the FWH where you'd get more out of them. Once you're over 100IBUs or so its pretty indistinguishable.

Also, since you only have a few oz of fresh hops, I'd save them for the aroma adds since thats their biggest benefit.

dcp27 said:

Why so many bittering adds? I'd compress the 80, 60, and 40 into one add at 60 or 80. I'd probably also back off on them a bit and use those hops later in the boil or load them up in the FWH where you'd get more out of them. Once you're over 100IBUs or so its pretty indistinguishable.

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I strongly agree that 80,60, and 40 is redundant. I think you get to a point anywhere between 30 and 60 minutes where hop additions really all take on similar bittering characteristics and flavor components. I am also not a fan of mash hops or FWH; I think they are just a trendy thing to do, and don't really make much of a difference.

I understand that Pliny is the benchmark, and the recipes I have seen seem to be throwing in hops every five minutes. Dogfish Head seems to be from a similar school of thought, and they really advocate bittering constantly through the boil. I believe it is more of a gimic than a best practice. Yet, I guess you can't argue with success. However, I want to point to Stone's Ruination IPA, which I think is insanely good. IIRC, it has a huge bittering charge at 60, and then saves the rest of the hops for a hot whirlpool. A really large dry hop finishes off the process. Supposedly, there is a really good clone recipe that was pulled out of either BYO or another mag, and you can find a screenshot on this website with a quick search.

The other thing that might be worth considering is a two part dry hop. Firestone Walker's Union Jack uses that technique, and they seem to be very successful.

To illustrate, I have a recipe planned for a Triple Simcoe IPA (5 gallon batch) that I plan to use 8 oz of hops for. I will be adding 1 oz at 60, 1 oz at 30, and 2 ounces during a 30 minute hot whirlpool (I calculate the whirlpool bittering as a 20 minute addition). I will then do my first dry hop with 2 ounces of simcoe as fermentation slows, and two more ounces a week before I rack out of the primary.

Joe

So really not fans of the continuous hopping? I was going to try the First Wort hops because I haven't yet. As for the continuous I will probably just put more in the beginning and the end.

As for the fresh hops, I thought about that, just using them for Dry Hopping. So maybe that is what I will do

KoedBrew said:

So really not fans of the continuous hopping? I was going to try the First Wort hops because I haven't yet. As for the continuous I will probably just put more in the beginning and the end.

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I'm OK with it if that's the plan, but I'd weight it more towards the end so the additions get larger as the boil goes on.

KoedBrew said:

Here is my plan so far
First wort = 1oz Fresh Centennial, 1oz Columbus Pel
80 minutes = 1oz Amarillo, 1oz Columbus,
60 minutes = 1oz Citra, 1oz Centennial
40 minutes = 1oz Columbus, 1oz Amarillo
20 minutes = 1oz Centennial, 1oz Columbus
5 minutes = 1oz Centennial, 1oz Citra Fresh
Flame out = 1oz Columbus, 1oz Centennial, 1oz Citra, 1oz Amarillo

Dry hop starting after 5 -6 days
Centennial and Columbus

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It is more than the fact that I am not big on continuous hopping; I would just hate to see you blow through such great hops in the first half of your boil and not take advantage of their best qualities.

For example, I think it is a mistake to use your Amarillo (which is becoming pretty hard to get a hold of) in your bittering. If you want to try it as a piece of a blend; great, but I think you would be happier with it toward the end of the boil (where you are already using an ounce), or as part of the dry hop. I love Centennial. I really like that you are using it at 60/20/5/0/dry. I have never used Citra, but it is supposed to be a huge component of the SN Torpedo IPA, which is a really great beer. I think it would be a great choice toward the end of the boil and also as a dry hop. Let this hop schedule stew, and let me know what you think.

10 Gallon Batch

60 min - 2 oz Columbus, 1 oz Centennial
20 min - 1 oz Centennial, 1 oz Columbus
5 min - 1 oz Centennial, 1 oz Amarillo
0 min - 1oz Centennial, 1oz Citra, 1oz Amarillo
(I would really suggest whirlpooling these hops or at least letting them sit for 20-30 minutes before you start chilling, but this process is not for everyone)

Dry hop - 1oz Amarillo, 1 oz Citra, .5 oz Columbus, .5oz Centennial

I like this schedule for a couple reasons. First, it eliminates what I called redundencies in the hops at the start of your boil, but you will still carry over some interesting flavors from the Columbus. I am sure you will also be brewking the 100 IBU mark (calculated). The late hops allow you to showcase a few really nice varieties. Centennial and Amarillo go great together, and Citra is supposed to be amazing. The dry hop pulls everything together, still emphasizing the Citrus-ey Amarillo and Centennial, and reinforces the Columbus and Centannial.

I like it.

Joe

jfowler1 said:

10 Gallon Batch

60 min - 2 oz Columbus, 1 oz Centennial
20 min - 1 oz Centennial, 1 oz Columbus
5 min - 1 oz Centennial, 1 oz Amarillo
0 min - 1oz Centennial, 1oz Citra, 1oz Amarillo
(I would really suggest whirlpooling these hops or at least letting them sit for 20-30 minutes before you start chilling, but this process is not for everyone)

Dry hop - 1oz Amarillo, 1 oz Citra, .5 oz Columbus, .5oz Centennial

Click to expand...

This sounds pretty solid The only thing I am going to change just because I want to give a try is 1oz of Columbus and 1 oz of Centennial as FWH
and 2 oz of Citra at Flame out...Then I will try this Whirlpool method...Are you referring to the method that Kaiser has a post about?

Thanks for the Assistance

I am not sure about Kai's post (but the guy is at a different level, so whatever he was talking about - listen to him. Great pretzel recipe too.), but I built a Jamil-o-chiller to perform my whirlpool. You can see really good illustrations at mrmalty.com. At zero minutes, I kill the heat and toss in my hops. If I am not in a rush, I allow the hops to whirlpool in the kettle (covered) for 30 minutes. There is no science to this next statement, but my taste buds seem to agree - I calculate the 30 minute whirlpool as a 20 minute bittering. The biggest evidence was my last Pale ale. I based it on Maine Brewing Company's Spring Peeper. The brewer told me the secret is a tiny, clean bittering at 60, and a huge whirlpool addition at the end. I used .3 oz of magnum at 60, and no other hops until I tossed in .85 oz each of Centennial, Cascade, and Amarillo at flameout - the result was actually too bitter and hoppy. It is amazing what the whirlpool will yield.

If you do not have the desire to build a Jamil-o-chiller, you can just kill the flame, create a good whirlpool with a spoon, cover, and let the wort sit for 30 minutes. Then start your chiller. You should still have a good result.

Some may critique my choice to leave he lid on the kettle during whirlpool because of concerns with DMS, but I think that protecting against material falling into the no longer boiling wort trumps any DMS concerns. Besides, a 75 minute boil and a malt bill lacking Pilsner malt will dramatically reduce most precursor for DMS. I have never had issue with it, so why invent something to worry about.

Let me know if any of that was unclear.

Joe

Thanks for the info on the Jamil whirlpool I have heard of it I just haven't actually tried it yet.

Here was the schedule I had a hop replacement for Amarillo

75 minute boil
@75 min 1oz Citra, 1oz Centennial, 2oz Columbus, 1oz Calypso
@30 min 1oz Citra, 1oz Centennial, 1oz Calypso
@15 min 1oz Columbus, 1oz Citra, .5 oz Calypso
@0 min 1oz Citra, 1oz Calypso, 1oz Centennial

2 of the hop bags broke while stirring it the wort at Flame out and now I have inches of Trub just forming a nice layer at the bottom of my fermenters.

I have a couple more questions... I usually just leave things in a Primary fermenter for the whole time like a month or so. The fact that I have a ton of Trub and I also want to dry hop I am wondering if I should throw this beer in a Secondary for the dry hopping to get it off the Crud?

Also, Dry Hops
1oz Whole leaf and 1oz pellet Citra
3oz Columbus
2oz Calypso
and an oz of Amarillo Whole leaf

I'd be willing to go get some more hops for dry hopping if I need to? I have like 5 gallons in 2 different Carboys so I have to divy this up somehow?