BIAB Brewing (with pics)

Good Day All,

This is my third batch ever. It is an oatmeal stout, here is my album thus far, in 4 weeks I'll complete it once the bottling begins and then when tasting

Brooklyn Brew Shop: Oatmeal Stout, 1 Gallon.

http://imgur.com/a/GVJ51

My efficiency issues continue to trouble me. I am at my wit's end trying to figure out what could be the cause, as I've spent a long time reading about the proper BIAB technique.

Obviously, I am not WAY off, but my inconsistency troubles me. My previous two batches I finally got my efficiency up to around 73-75% which is pretty acceptable to me. However, yesterday's brew was down around 68% following the exact same procedures.

I don't mind adding a pound or so of base malt to make sure I hit my targets, but I really would rather figure out what the problem is rather than work around it. I read all the time brewers talk about getting close to 80% with BIAB.

Yesterday, I made this IPA. I hit 1.060 as opposed to the target 1.065. Here's my process:

1. Double crush grain at the LHBS.
2. Use a calculator to determine my strike temp and heat water.
3. Pour grain into bag about 25% at a time and stir, until its all in. I hit my mash temp exactly.
4. I always do a 90 minute mash to help efficiency. I stir the grain every 15 minutes during this process.
5. I raise temp to 170F, stir, and allow to rest for 10 minutes.
6. I suspend the bag over the wort with a pulley and allow to drain as I begin heating for the boil.
7. I squeeze the bag until my pre-boil volume is reached. Depending on how much additional volume I need, I may squeeze a lot, or a little, but I've gotten my volumes pretty dialed in.
8. Boil away.

So is there anything glaring during my process that shows why I might have an efficiency be around 68%? I read all the time that brewers say "I give up some efficiency doing BIAB but usually hit the upper 70%'s". I have never achieved this.

What about water treatment?

ClemTiger0408 said:

So is there anything glaring during my process that shows why I might have an efficiency be around 68%? I read all the time that brewers say "I give up some efficiency doing BIAB but usually hit the upper 70%'s". I have never achieved this.

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I tend to get about 73-75% for 'regular' strength beers, mid-80s on session beers. Bigger beers from about 68%. Go for consistency rather than high efficiency. I think your process is pretty spot-on, but one thing I'm finding useful is a refractometer. I've used it twice so far. After about an hour I check the gravity of the wort. If it's not where I want it I let it keep going until I get to my pre-boil gravity. Sometimes conversion takes a little longer - my grodziskie took a full 2 hours to convert! Though honestly, if you mash for 90 minutes it should be completely converted.

The other "convenience" I've worked out is I built a press out of two 3-4 gallon frosting buckets from my local grocery store's bakery dept. Drill holes in the bottom of one, nest it in the other, and press, either with a third bucket or with silicone pot holders. I get a better squeeze without burning myself.

Maybe check your pH?

eulipion2 said:

I tend to get about 73-75% for 'regular' strength beers, mid-80s on session beers. Bigger beers from about 68%. Go for consistency rather than high efficiency. I think your process is pretty spot-on, but one thing I'm finding useful is a refractometer. I've used it twice so far. After about an hour I check the gravity of the wort. If it's not where I want it I let it keep going until I get to my pre-boil gravity. Sometimes conversion takes a little longer - my grodziskie took a full 2 hours to convert! Though honestly, if you mash for 90 minutes it should be completely converted.

The other "convenience" I've worked out is I built a press out of two 3-4 gallon frosting buckets from my local grocery store's bakery dept. Drill holes in the bottom of one, nest it in the other, and press, either with a third bucket or with silicone pot holders. I get a better squeeze without burning myself.

Maybe check your pH?

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Thanks. A 1.065 probably isn't considered "big" but at least I know others have somewhat of an efficiency drop off. I've only done about 6 BIAB batches and the first two didn't go well for a dumb reason. So basically I only have about 4 solid BIAB runs so far. Hardly enough to notice trends.

The water I use is from those Glacier water dispensers in grocery stores as my house water is behind a water softener.

ClemTiger0408 said:

Thanks. A 1.065 probably isn't considered "big" but at least I know others have somewhat of an efficiency drop off. I've only done about 6 BIAB batches and the first two didn't go well for a dumb reason. So basically I only have about 4 solid BIAB runs so far. Hardly enough to notice trends.

The water I use is from those Glacier water dispensers in grocery stores as my house water is behind a water softener.

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The highest I've ever attempted in 5 years of BIAB is 1.075, so 1.065 could possibly be considered the extreme low end of "big", but I'm sure you can probably get your efficiency up with some fiddling.

What kind of descriptors do they use on the Glacier water? "Reverse Osmosis," "Mineral," "Spring"? I prefer using reverse osmosis, but where I live now I'm forced to use store-bought spring water. With RO I usually adjusted the water chem (very crude adjustment with CaCl), but not knowing the makeup of the spring water I don't bother now.

1. Double crush grain at the LHBS.

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Since you are using bottled water this is most likely the source of the inconsistency. Unless that mill is new and the adjustments are welded so they cannot be changed, you can't be sure of the quality of the crush you are getting.

eulipion2 said:

The highest I've ever attempted in 5 years of BIAB is 1.075, so 1.065 could possibly be considered the extreme low end of "big", but I'm sure you can probably get your efficiency up with some fiddling.

What kind of descriptors do they use on the Glacier water? "Reverse Osmosis," "Mineral," "Spring"? I prefer using reverse osmosis, but where I live now I'm forced to use store-bought spring water. With RO I usually adjusted the water chem (very crude adjustment with CaCl), but not knowing the makeup of the spring water I don't bother now.

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The display says its Reverse Osmosis.

ClemTiger0408 said:

The display says its Reverse Osmosis.

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I found this thread: Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

For RO water the OP recommends a baseline of 1 tsp of calcium chloride per 5 gallons of water, as well as converting 2-3% of your grist to acidulated malt for pH adjustment, and offers adjustments to that formula depending on what you're brewing. It's not terribly precise, but when I was using RO for non-hoppy beers I usually added ~1.5 tsp of CaCl to my full volume mash, and threw in about 1-3 oz of acid malt. For hoppy brews I usually added CaCl and some gypsum.

I'm not guaranteeing that this will get your efficiency up to where you'd like it, but it's always fun to tinker

I agree with using the recommendations in the primer and using brewer's friend mash chemistry calculator to estimate the mash pH. My efficiency was inconsistent like yours (68 to 83%) but since I started using acid malt and fine tuning to a pH of 5.3 to 5.4 by using gypsum and calcium chloride, my efficiency has been consistently 73-75%.

I use softened water and get good efficiency. Look into a corona mill. $40 and you know you will get the crush you want.

My BH eff ranges from 78 to 85%. I have a Corona mill and crush as fine as I can get it, then add the grains very slow and stirring all the time. If I don't stir a lot, I get big lumps, which I'm sure will mess up my eff.

great post, nice pics, easy to follow. thanks

Great write-up! I modified this slightly to conform with my (lack of) specific equipment, and it seemed to work like a charm. My first all grain Belgian Wit is currently burbling away in my living room.

Peace
BB

i only have an 8 gallon stock pot and i am attempting to do a BIAB all grain 5 gallon batch. at this time, i am not purchasing a larger stock pot. what is the best method, specifically dealing w/ the lack of strike water volume?

That is the same as my equipment for BIAB 5 gal batches. I use make-up water and dunk sparges. I try to make up the volume with the water from the sparges and usually do not hit it exactly, so a little more make up water or a little more boiling. Higher gravities have lower extraction efficiency, you should do fine up to 6% final target.

cwkayk said:

i only have an 8 gallon stock pot and i am attempting to do a BIAB all grain 5 gallon batch.

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BTW, I built a 1500W 120V heatstick to help my anemic electric range. The stick itself is enough for 3 gallon batches, which is nice for one case of 12 oz and I can brew anywhere.

Epimetheus said:

That is the same as my equipment for BIAB 5 gal batches. I use make-up water and dunk sparges. I try to make up the volume with the water from the sparges and usually do not hit it exactly, so a little more make up water or a little more boiling. Higher gravities have lower extraction efficiency, you should do fine up to 6% final target.



BTW, I built a 1500W 120V heatstick to help my anemic electric range. The stick itself is enough for 3 gallon batches, which is nice for one case of 12 oz and I can brew anywhere.

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Gotpics of that? Would like to see.

Epimetheus said:

That is the same as my equipment for BIAB 5 gal batches. I use make-up water and dunk sparges. I try to make up the volume with the water from the sparges and usually do not hit it exactly, so a little more make up water or a little more boiling. Higher gravities have lower extraction efficiency, you should do fine up to 6% final target.



BTW, I built a 1500W 120V heatstick to help my anemic electric range. The stick itself is enough for 3 gallon batches, which is nice for one case of 12 oz and I can brew anywhere.

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Got pics of that pot setup? Would like to see.

Ok let me throw in a monkey wrench. Could I buy one of those curtains you guys are making the bag out of and line my plastic cooler mash tun on top of the PVC filter that I already have in there? Best if both worlds? Put in full boil water volume. Could still sparge if you wanted to. Don't have to be concerned about burning the bag. Clean up still kinda easier. Would this work? Thoughts?


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hoppybrewster said:

Ok let me throw in a monkey wrench. Could I buy one of those curtains you guys are making the bag out of and line my plastic cooler mash tun on top of the PVC filter that I already have in there? Best if both worlds? Put in full boil water volume. Could still sparge if you wanted to. Don't have to be concerned about burning the bag. Clean up still kinda easier. Would this work? Thoughts?


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It will work well. If you ever get a stuck sparge, just lift the bag. You'll like it.

hoppybrewster said:

Ok let me throw in a monkey wrench. Could I buy one of those curtains you guys are making the bag out of and line my plastic cooler mash tun on top of the PVC filter that I already have in there? Best if both worlds? Put in full boil water volume. Could still sparge if you wanted to. Don't have to be concerned about burning the bag. Clean up still kinda easier. Would this work? Thoughts?


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you can even eliminate the PVC manifold. http://www.brewinabag.com/ has examples of just that.

Mysticmead said:

you can even eliminate the PVC manifold. http://www.brewinabag.com/ has examples of just that.

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Great looking bags. The only reason I was thinking of leaving the manifold in was to provide hundreds of exit points for the wort as opposed to one. Better efficiency? Don't know.



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hoppybrewster said:

Great looking bags. The only reason I was thinking of leaving the manifold in was to provide hundreds of exit points for the wort as opposed to one. Better efficiency? Don't know.

.

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The manifold is of no benefit if you are batch sparging, if fly sparging, the manifold will help prevent channeling.

hoppybrewster said:

Great looking bags. The only reason I was thinking of leaving the manifold in was to provide hundreds of exit points for the wort as opposed to one. Better efficiency? Don't know.



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So i bought one of the bags from that place for my cooler. I've read quite a bit in this thread. To dummy this down to make sure I understand. I heat up 1.25 qts water/Lb. of grain to 170 deg. Add water to cooler. As quick as possible stir in double crushed grains ensuring no doughy clumps. Close lid, mash for 60-90 min. Lift bag slowly from cooler, squeeze bag a bit. Open valve into brew pot, measure OG, begin boil.

hoppybrewster said:

So i bought one of the bags from that place for my cooler. I've read quite a bit in this thread. To dummy this down to make sure I understand. I heat up 1.25 qts water/Lb. of grain to 170 deg. Add water to cooler. As quick as possible stir in double crushed grains ensuring no doughy clumps. Close lid, mash for 60-90 min. Lift bag slowly from cooler, squeeze bag a bit. Open valve into brew pot, measure OG, begin boil.

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I think you've missed a bit with your reading. Are you BIAB or just using a conventional tun with a bag installed instead of a manifold or braid? BIAB was designed for using the full volume of water right from the start, no sparging. Conventional tuns use a water ratio like the 1.2 qts/lb and then sparge to get the proper preboil volume. Somewhere you've crossed the two up.

RM-MN said:

I think you've missed a bit with your reading. Are you BIAB or just using a conventional tun with a bag installed instead of a manifold or braid? BIAB was designed for using the full volume of water right from the start, no sparging. Conventional tuns use a water ratio like the 1.2 qts/lb and then sparge to get the proper preboil volume. Somewhere you've crossed the two up.

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Well I read somewhere I can use full water volume in the cooler instead of the boil pot. So everything that would be done in the brew pot is getting done in the cooler.

hoppybrewster said:

Well I read somewhere I can use full water volume in the cooler instead of the boil pot. So everything that would be done in the brew pot is getting done in the cooler.

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You certainly can use all the water in the cooler as long as the cooler is big enough for the water plus grain. However, now you have a different water to grain ration and you have to calculate the temperature of the water plus the grain so you get the right temperature for the water. If you use 170 degree water with that setup your enzymes that you need to convert starches to sugars will be gone before you get the full conversion. I usually use water that is 160 to 162 when I use full volume. That should get me at 152 to 154 for my mash temperature. You might try that for starters and then adjust the temperature for your next brew based on what your mash temperature turns out to be. You can also change your time from the 60 to 90 minutes you posted to 30 to 60 as with your grains double milled your conversion will happen quicker.

RM-MN said:

You certainly can use all the water in the cooler as long as the cooler is big enough for the water plus grain. However, now you have a different water to grain ration and you have to calculate the temperature of the water plus the grain so you get the right temperature for the water. If you use 170 degree water with that setup your enzymes that you need to convert starches to sugars will be gone before you get the full conversion. I usually use water that is 160 to 162 when I use full volume. That should get me at 152 to 154 for my mash temperature. You might try that for starters and then adjust the temperature for your next brew based on what your mash temperature turns out to be. You can also change your time from the 60 to 90 minutes you posted to 30 to 60 as with your grains double milled your conversion will happen quicker.

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Thanks for the help! really dont know what I'm doing, been extract for years. Can I use Beersmith or other calcs to get this right? (72 qt. cooler by the way)

hoppybrewster said:

Thanks for the help! really dont know what I'm doing, been extract for years. Can I use Beersmith or other calcs to get this right?

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I haven't used Beersmith but from the questions being asked by others I'd say no at this point. For someone experienced it has a lot of features but it seems to be confusing for starters. I use the calculator here at TastyBrew to get my water temperature. http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/infusion.html

I usually use something like 2.37 qts/lb in the grain to water ration section.

Thanks, more studying.

Just because you brew with a bag doesn't mean you are BIAB brewing.
BIAB is full volume, no sparge, single vessel brewing. No mash turns or HLT's required.
This thread and entire section needs to get back to that fact. I understand that using a bag can make things easier for multi vessel brewing; but you are not actually BIABing.

lumpy5oh said:

Just because you brew with a bag doesn't mean you are BIAB brewing.
BIAB is full volume, no sparge, single vessel brewing. No mash turns or HLT's required.
This thread and entire section needs to get back to that fact. I understand that using a bag can make things easier for multi vessel brewing; but you are not actually BIABing.

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Live and let live. This thread has been a valuable resource to many by explaining different techniques using bag rather than a lot of expensive equipment. I think it's a great thread.

This is what I call maximizing the squeeze!

lumpy5oh said:

Just because you brew with a bag doesn't mean you are BIAB brewing.
BIAB is full volume, no sparge, single vessel brewing. No mash turns or HLT's required.
This thread and entire section needs to get back to that fact. I understand that using a bag can make things easier for multi vessel brewing; but you are not actually BIABing.

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Is the method I'm talking about above going to work?


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chawn said:

This thread has been a valuable resource to many by explaining different techniques using bag rather than a lot of expensive equipment.

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Exactly. One kettle, one bag, one burner. Those who want to use bags in mash tuns are buying/using unnecessary equipment. If they are looking for help and guidance they are better off looking at the traditional AG threads. True BIAB is cheaper and easier and what I'm saying is that is what the focus of this section needs to be.

hoppybrewster said:

Is the method I'm talking about above going to work?


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Possibly. It's just that in true BIAB you don't need the cooler.
The burr under my saddle is the increasing discussions in the BIAB section of water to grain ratios and sparging and multiple vessels. The start of this thread is fantastic for beginners looking at BIAB, but I fear the extra info I mentioned could be confusing.

lumpy5oh said:

Possibly. It's just that in true BIAB you don't need the cooler.
The burr under my saddle is the increasing discussions in the BIAB section of water to grain ratios and sparging and multiple vessels. The start of this thread is fantastic for beginners looking at BIAB, but I fear the extra info I mentioned could be confusing.

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Agreed. BIAB is single vessel, full-volume mash. For the longest time I even heated the grain and water together with great results. The only "enhancement" I've made was to fashion a bag press out of some plastic buckets because I really hate squeezing by hand.

Not disagreeing, but there is more than one way to do BIAB. It doesn't necessarily have to be a single vessel full volume mash. I mash 10-12 lbs of grain at about 1.25 qts/lb, in a bag, in a 5 gal round cooler. Drain and squeeze into my 10.5 gal kettle. Batch/dunk sparge back in the cooler with enough water to reach pre-boil volume. Drain and squeeze and combine in kettle. Maybe it's a hybrid of sorts, but it's still essentially BIAB.


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copper2hopper said:

View attachment 227652
This is what I call maximizing the squeeze!

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I discovered this squeeze process during my last brew. I used the clamps only. Haven't had the time yet, but my plan is to somehow attach 2-2 x 6's to one clamp.

BrewinBromanite said:

Not disagreeing, but there is more than one way to do BIAB. It doesn't necessarily have to be a single vessel full volume mash. I mash 10-12 lbs of grain at about 1.25 qts/lb, in a bag, in a 5 gal round cooler. Drain and squeeze into my 10.5 gal kettle. Batch/dunk sparge back in the cooler with enough water to reach pre-boil volume. Drain and squeeze and combine in kettle. Maybe it's a hybrid of sorts, but it's still essentially BIAB.


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Just curious do you heat your sparge water?
I think we could call your hybrid; Brewing With A Bag.
Granted if you are only using 2 vessels you are saving in equipment and space compared to full 3 vessel brewing; which is part of the beauty of Biab.
What I think some are missing is that in pure Biab you use the full volume of water you will need in the mash. The extra water rinses the grains just as sparging does.
A 90 min Biab full volume mash and a 60 min mash with a sparge really keep the grains in contact with water for approximately the same amount of time. I just think that doing the full volume route is simpler.
For those who do use the cooler set up; how do you regulate your mash temps? In using my brew kettle as the mash tun ( with a blanket wrapped around it) if my temp falls out of range I just add heat.

Using your current setup; I would suggest trying full volume. As long as the cooler can hold your mash temps; you may want to join the dark side of pure Biab.