When first wort hopping, can I add 50% of my aroma hops that I was going to add @ 10m

jetmac said:

Alot or a little? The reason I ask is, FWH is added when the wort is not boiling so I would think it would add less bittering than if added after the boil starts.
This is for an American Amber ale I'm brewing.

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jetmac said:

Alot or a little? The reason I ask is, FWH is added when the wort is not boiling so I would think it would add less bittering than if added after the boil starts.
This is for an American Amber ale I'm brewing.

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Yooper said:

The thinking varies. In my experience, all of the FWH are bittering hops, but perhaps with a "smoother" bitterness. It does NOT replace flavor/aroma, but contributes primarily to bitterness.

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jetmac said:

Found this from "How to Brew"

First Wort Hopping
An old yet recently rediscovered process (at least among homebrewers), first wort hopping (FWH) consists of adding a large portion of the finishing hops to the boil kettle as the wort is received from the lauter tun. As the boil tun fills with wort (which may take a half hour or longer), the hops steep in the hot wort and release their volatile oils and resins. The aromatic oils are normally insoluble and tend to evaporate to a large degree during the boil. By letting the hops steep in the wort prior to the boil, the oils have more time to oxidize to more soluble compounds and a greater percentage are retained during the boil.

Only low alpha finishing hops should be used for FWH, and the amount should be no less than 30% of the total amount of hops used in the boil. This FWH addition therefore should be taken from the hops intended for finishing additions. Because more hops are in the wort longer during the boil, the total bitterness of the beer in increased but not by a substantial amount due to being low in alpha acid. In fact, one study among professional brewers determined that the use of FWH resulted in a more refined hop aroma, a more uniform bitterness (i.e. no harsh tones), and a more harmonious beer overall compared to an identical beer produced without FWH.

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ayoungrad said:

I say give it a shot and let us know how it goes.

The ideas on FWH seem to be all over the place. I've done FWH a few times but I'm hard pressed to know all of it's effects...

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Yooper said:

Yeah, I've read that. I've also read and seen Denny Conn's article (presented at the 2007 NHC, I believe) on it as well as had my own experience. I never argue with Mr. Palmer, as he's 2000 times smarter than I am about the science of brewing. HOWEVER, if you read what is bolded and then read the rest, he is definitely talking about low AAU hops. Of course low AAU hops will only increase the IBUs slightly. Hops higher in cohumulone will be harsher, though. I think that is more important than the actual IBUs. Low cohumulone hops boiled longer will be smoother than higher cohumulone hops.

My experience is using slightly higher AAU hops and in IPAs and APAs, where I want the hops flavor to shine. I've used simcoe, chinook, amarillo, cascade, etc for FWH. Which does greatly impact the bitterness, since they tend to be higher AAU hops with a higher cohumulone content than lower AAU noble hops.

If you look at Ray Daniel's "Designing Great Beers" and consider the hops utilization curve, you can see that the longer the hops oils boil, the more isomerization occurs. That is NOT contradictory at all to John Palmers assertion- but again, remember that John Palmer is talking strictly about AAUs and providing "slightly" more bitterness. So, maybe a 3% AAU hop as FWH won't provide a strong bitterness. But I don't think you'll get a ton of flavor contribution, either, with a low AAU FWH.

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jetmac said:

Agreed. What do you think would be the highest AA that could be used without increasing the IBU's to an undesired amount. I was going to use Falconers Flight as aroma/taste, which has 10.5% if I recall. But the Horizon hops I have for bittering is 9.2%
Off the top of my head I want to say the FF hops has 27 cohumulone points. And something like Cascade has like 35% cohumulone

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Yooper said:

I've had long email "conversations" with James Spencer, and he has connections to having the actual IBUs measured, so we've been discussing a Basic Brewing Radio experiment with FWH.

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