Worried about quality of LHBS supplies

I just tried a new LHBS for my last 2 batches and have not been impressed with the results. Both were extract recipes using DME with the addition of steeping grains and hops.

The first batch was an IPA with an OG of 1.054 that stuck at 1.035 after 10 days and has not moved in over a week. I thoroughly aerated and rehydrated my Notty yeast as per instructions. I thought my procedure was sound, but figure that stucks just happen sometimes and I would make a new batch so I could pitch the IPA onto its yeast cake. (I did however attempt to give it a shake, up the temp a bit, and repitch - to no avail)

So, the second batch was a Stout with OG 1.056 that has only moved down to 1.045 after 7 days. I find this to be extremely slow and figure that the same thing is happening here as the first one. To make sure the LHBS hadn't just given me some expired Notty the first batch, I purchased some US-05 this time. BTW when I buy the yeast the LHBS sells it in plastic portioned bags so I cannot check myself if its expired.

Both of these batches had very small krausens, maybe 1.4" at best that showed up after 3-4 days and never grew larger. Like I said both times I used sound practice, ESPECIALLY the second batch just to be certain. I'm really upset because it looks like im down $100 because these do not seem to be attenuating.

I want to talk to the LHBS but I'm not sure what the problem could even be. Could the malt extract be bad? Could the yeast be expired? (not sure if it can be expired if I did get some fermentation?)

Anyways, hoping you guys can help me figure out how to approach this situation with my LHBS... I'm still relatively new at brewing... About 7 batches now not including these 2... But these last 2 have just been a drag where its been hard to "RDWHAHB" because it seems im out $100. Any help is much appreciated!

**Edit: Fermentation temps were steady between 66-68 both times.
Thanks fellas.

Lefe21 said:

BTW when I buy the yeast the LHBS sells it in plastic portioned bags so I cannot check myself if its expired.

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That seems ... weird. Anywhere else you can get some more yeast?

And did you actually pitch the stout on the yeast cake or did you start over with the new yeast?

Just for kicks and grins, what are your wort aeration procedures and fermentation temps?

dogbar said:

That seems ... weird. Anywhere else you can get some more yeast?

And did you actually pitch the stout on the yeast cake or did you start over with the new yeast?

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What I meant was the Stout's yeast cake was meant for the IPA to be pitched on. I used US-05 for the Stout. I did pick up yeast from a different place for the re-pitching of the IPA. Used Notty again and it did nothing, but I haven't heard much success about re-pitching to unstick so I dont know how valuable that info is.

GroosBrewz said:

Just for kicks and grins, what are your wort aeration procedures and fermentation temps?

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For my aeration I pour it from pot to bucket and then stir it up for about 5 minutes.

Also for kicks and grins, how does the IPA taste? I broke a hydrometer once without realizing it (small crack). Drove me nuts for an hour before I stuck it in some water and figured out what was going on.

dogbar said:

Also for kicks and grins, how does the IPA taste? I broke a hydrometer once without realizing it (small crack). Drove me nuts for an hour before I stuck it in some water and figured out what was going on.

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Tastes hoppy and sweet. I thought of that and check the hydrometer against water to make sure it was 1.000, and it was... this is frustrating

try a liquid yeast with a printed expiration date on it. And make a starter. I have never had a problem with Notty..... did a 1L starter with WLP001 this weekend, and airlock activity was insane next morning, I expect it will hit final gravity within a week.

Lefe21 said:

Tastes hoppy and sweet. I thought of that and check the hydrometer against water to make sure it was 1.000, and it was... this is frustrating

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repitch..... make a 1L starter, try an American Ale yeast and make a 1l starter 1 day before pitching it.

Arkador said:

try a liquid yeast with a printed expiration date on it. And make a starter. I have never had a problem with Notty..... did a 1L starter with WLP001 this weekend, and airlock activity was insane next morning, I expect it will hit final gravity within a week.

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The good thing about this idea is that if it doesn't work, you can pretty much rule out the yeast process as an issue. Then you could look at what you're using to clean/sanitize as well as the DME source.

I'm assuming there's not like four pounds of crystal malt in these recipes, right?

Arkador said:

try a liquid yeast with a printed expiration date on it. And make a starter. I have never had a problem with Notty..... did a 1L starter with WLP001 this weekend, and airlock activity was insane next morning, I expect it will hit final gravity within a week.



repitch..... make a 1L starter, try an American Ale yeast and make a 1l starter 1 day before pitching it.

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That's definitely something I could try... but I find it hard to believe I'd get two stuck in a row without there being something wrong with the supplies I got from this LHBS.

dogbar said:

The good thing about this idea is that if it doesn't work, you can pretty much rule out the yeast process as an issue. Then you could look at what you're using to clean/sanitize as well as the DME source.

I'm assuming there's not like four pounds of crystal malt in these recipes, right?

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No, each batch had less than about lb of steeping grains total. I could try the liquid yeast way, but I've read that using them to kick start a stuck fermentation is usually useless.

There was a problem with some Nottingham yeast packs a while back and it could be that this is what you have, especially if the LHBS has taken to repacking yeast from bricks. There would be no way for you to know what yeast you actually had and if it were the bad supply or not.

Lefe21 said:

No, each batch had less than about lb of steeping grains total. I could try the liquid yeast way, but I've read that using them to kick start a stuck fermentation is usually useless.

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Yeah, you could be throwing good money after bad, but what's the alternative? Dump the batch, buy new ingredients from someone else and start fresh? Seven bucks of yeast and some DME for a starter (hopefully from a different source) could be a decent investment to figure out what's going on.

Anyway, just my two cents.

dogbar said:

Yeah, you could be throwing good money after bad, but what's the alternative? Dump the batch, buy new ingredients from someone else and start fresh? Seven bucks of yeast and some DME for a starter (hopefully from a different source) could be a decent investment to figure out what's going on.

Anyway, just my two cents.

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Yeah, I wouldn't give up on it now that it has gone this far. I'd try known fresh yeast properly rehydrated pitched into the beer without any more aeration.

boo boo said:

Yeah, I wouldn't give up on it now that it has gone this far. I'd try known fresh yeast properly rehydrated pitched into the beer without any more aeration.

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By no means do I plan on giving up on it, I'm just trying to be realistic. Probably will end up trying the liquid yeast.

A quick update:

I went to a diff LHBS this morning and whipped up another batch. This one already needs a blowoff. So ill be pithing my stuck IPA and Stout onto this cake. Not at the same time of course, that would be interesting. Just hoping that the yeast cake can salvage these batches.

Lefe21 said:

Not at the same time of course, that would be interesting. Just hoping that the yeast cake can salvage these batches.

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Why not? Wash the yeast, split it in half and throw half in each beer. Half a yeast cake should be plenty for each one.

ChshreCat said:

Why not? Wash the yeast, split it in half and throw half in each beer. Half a yeast cake should be plenty for each one.

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Just never tried it before, so hoping it works out, dont see why it wouldnt. Washing it and pitching both at the same time is not a bad idea, might just go that route instead of waiting for another cake. Thanks

Another update...

Pitched the stuck IPA onto a yeast cake 3-4 days ago and still has not bugged. I called this LHBS and asked them what brand their malt extract is. She told me the name but I cannot remember... What I do remember is she said the stuff is at best 75% fermentable, and that customers regularly use beano with it.

Is 75% fermentable "at best" for dry extract normal? And there is no way you should have to add beano to a batch to make it ferment properly....outrageous. But, it looks like I may have to get some to salvage these batches. Where does one buy beano? Id prefer not to buy from this particular LHBS. Is it something available at a grocery store/pharmacy?

Couldn't you just pitch some krausen from your fermenting beer into each of the stuck ones now? Someone here gave me that advise before.

@Lefe: DME is about 80% fermentable. Using Beano will only reduce body. My guess right now is that the original yeast is [boobs] up, and just re-pitch with different yeast. You will no longer be making clones, but you'll have beer.

If your LHBS is telling you to use beano in your recipies, ditch them. Beano is unpredictable and at best will ferment out to completion in a few months or so.
So unpredictable that it would be advisable to store your beer cold and drink them as fast as you can to avoid bottle bombs.

If you pitched onto a recent yeast cake and nothing happened right away, your beer is done. Bottle it and try its carbonation every other day until it is good and drink it fast.

Was it repackaged bulk DME?

To date, I have only ever dumped one batch of beer. It was also the only batch I've made using Ontario bought bulk DME. The beer dropped from 1.066 to 1.050 and then stopped. After repitching TWICE, stirring it up, and heating it to 75-80 degrees, I got it down to 1.045.

I imagine that much of the extract kicking around the province is from the same source.