Putting Together a Fall Beer

Hey everyone!

I'm trying to put together a fall ale to brew in the next couple weeks. I've looked at a couple clone recipes of some beers and have a couple ideas, but I've never basically put a recipe together from almost scratch before so I wanted to post my ideas here. I had though to do an Oktoberfest, but ale's that are supposed to be lagers just don't seem the same to me. I liked the taste of New Belgium's Hoptober golden ale. The beer had a decent hop presence, and consisted of 2 row, some crystal, rye, oats, and wheat. I'm shooting for something like this, but with a maltier backbone and darker color.

Anyway, here's my process. I use Deathbrewer's stovetop brewing technique. I mash in my five gal kettle with a grain bag, then do a sparge to get usually around 4 to 4.5 gal for the boil and top off with two in the fermenter. I do partial mash, though it's mostly grain with only a couple pounds of DME. I usually get around 65% efficiency.

OK, with that out of the way, here's what I've put together so far using Brewtoad recipe calculator.

OG: 1.059
FG. 1.015
Batch size: 5.5 gal

5lb 2 row
2lb Munich 10L
1lb Rye Malt
1lb Crystal 60L
.5lb Flaked Wheat
.5lb Flaked Oats
.5lb Victory Malt

Safale S-04 dry ale yeast

I'm open to ideas on the hops. I brewed lighter amber beer for summer that had cascade and Willamette and those worked well, but any other ideas would be appreciated. I'm looking for around 30 IBU or so.

Also, I've never used Victory, oats, rye, or flaked wheat, so how do those amounts look?

Thanks for the help!

Victory malt - You're at 5%, so it will be noticeable, but not overpowering.

What are you trying to achieve with the flaked wheat, flaked oats, and rye? The flaked oats will also aid in head retention and will give you a creamy, smooth mouthfeel. The flaked wheat will aid head retention, give a wheaty flavor, and probably make the beer hazy. But the wheaty flavor will be largely covered over by the rye. You could drop the wheat and roll that half pound into Munich.

With S-04, you should get fruity English flavors, if that's your goal. English-style hops, like Willamette, Mt. Hood, Northern Brewer, etc., would work well.

I'm not set on having the wheat in there, so I could drop that, especially if its gonna cloud the beer. I've never used rye, how much flavor will a pound produce? I don't want it to overshadow the other flavors, but I want to know its there.

I'm using S 04 because it leaves a bit of a maltier profile. I tend to stick to dry yeast as I don't typically do starters. I've had good experience with both S 04 and 05, but I think the 04 would be better in this beer. Having said this, I'm not going for an English style ale, if that makes any sense, so I'm open to ideas.

Rye - It will be noticeable. Ruthless Rye clone recipes have the rye at 10-15% of the grain bill, and you're at 10%. To avoid the gumminess, and possible stuck sparge that can ensue, you should consider doing one of the following 1) a protein rest (~125 degF), 2) an extra long saccharification rest, 3) decoction mash. You might also throw in a half pound of rice hulls.

Hops - If you want to go in a German direction, you might try Sterling with Tettnang, Hallertau, Liberty, etc. Slightly spicy, slightly floral, classic flavor. Maybe finish with some Saphir for citrusy aroma. If you want American, you could combine Cascade with one of the really citrusy hops like Amarillo, Centennial, Citra, or Simcoe. Or for pine, you can use Northern Brewer. Make sort of an Oktoberfest/California Common fusion. Combining Sticklebract or Southern Cross with Nelson Sauvin, Pacific Gem, Pacific Jade, or Riwaka might also be interesting. New Zealand amber.

I agree with dropping the flaked wheat but I would sub with malted wheat and drop that victory and go for more Munich or two row. Simplicity is key when you are learning and forever really. I am a big fan of the bright citrus/tropical hops and that's what I think of when I think fall, since fall is hop harvest time. I think it would be a good idea for you to just pick one hop and use that to 10 IBU at bittering, 10 IBU at 30 mins, and 5 more at 15, then the last five in the whirlpool. As for the hop variety I suggest Citra. I did an all Citra hopped ale with the S-04 yeast and they play well together. Cheers!

Thanks for the ideas so far guys! I don't have to worry about the stuck sparge as I do basically a modified version of BIAB. I plan to mash this beer at around 152 to 154 degrees. I'm leaning towards American hops. I'm sure I'll use cascade, but I haven't decided on the others yet. I do like Amarillo and citra, but I don't want the beer to be overly citrus tasting, so what hops would combine to balance those? I do like Willamette, and I've never used Northern Brewer so that could be interesting.

I'm planning on keeping the Victory malt, as I'm looking for a more complex brew here. I might dial the rye back to a half pound. I want some taste in there, but I want it to blend with the other flavors well.

5% wheat in a grainbill will absolutely not make the beer hazy. So don't exclude the wheat based on that. Also, I know you're doing BIAB so you don't really need to worry about it, but there's no need to do a protein rest or decoction or anything like that for just 10% rye in a grainbill. Maybe throw in some rice hulls just in case, but there's no way that small of an amount of rye is going to gum up your mash. But I think 1 lb of rye would probably blend in that grainbill pretty well. I would keep it at 1 lb.

I think overall that grainbill looks pretty tasty! As for the hops, you said you wanted some citrus but not overpowering so I would go with maybe Amarillo for the citrus and Willamette for a little floral/earthy balance. Or maybe Centennial and Willamette if you wanted more of the florally citrus notes.

OK, so here's the final recipe that I hope to brew this weekend

OG 1.060
FG 1.015
IBU 31
Color 12

5lb 2 row
2lb light DME at flameout
2lb Munich 10L
1lb Rye Malt
1lb Crystal 60L
.5lb Wheat Malt
.5lb Flaked Oats
.5lb Victory Malt


Willamette 1.5 oz 60 min Boil Pellet 4.8%
Amarillo 0.5 oz 15 min Boil Pellet 9.5%
Willamette 1.0 oz 10 min Boil Pellet 4.8%
Willamette 0.5 oz 0 min Boil Pellet 4.8%
Amarillo 0.5 oz 0 min Boil Pellet 9.5%

Safale S-04 dry ale yeast.

I'm feeling pretty good about the look of this recipe, and I'm excited to brew it. Thanks everyone for their input!

Ok, so I just found a half ounce of Chinook still in my fridge. I'm debating about including it somewhere in the recipe. Should I, or does my recipe look good as is? Ideas?

save that chinook for an ipa/pale ale to run along side this batch. that way you have something malty and something hoppy.

Brewed this up today, and hit my OG on the dot! I'll update this in a couple months when I crack one open.

For anyone interested, this beer turned out very nice. The rye taste is there, but far from overpowering. Nice malt flavors, and very balanced hops. I'd definitely brew this one up again.

How are the hop aromatics/ flavors? Can you compare The flavor to a commercially available beer?

Hmmm I'll try my best to describe it as I'm having one now. The aroma is a bit floral and earthy with some citrusy smell in there too. The bready aroma from the malt is present as well.

The taste is pretty balanced as far as bitterness goes. There some rye spice and flavor, its good, but I might drop it from a pound to a half pound or .75 of a pound. The victory malt gives a bit of biscuit flavor. I'm not always a huge fan of the S 04 yeast, but I feel like the esters serve this beer well. The beer pours a deep gold/lighter amber with good head and lacing.

As for what commercial beer this resembles, I'm honestly not sure. I havent had too many rye beers, though this doesn't have a ton of rye so I wouldn't say its the beer's defining characteristic. I can say that I'm pretty satisfied with this brew though. I'd be interested to add a bit more Amarillo or maybe some cascade, I feel the Willamette flavors and aromas came across more.