I like the 4th comment down, personally. Though it's sweet that e'erybody's talking about cloning HT.
theveganbrewer said:Anyone read Mitch Steele's IPA book? I just found it at my library and gave it a read. He mentions Kimmich a couple of times and brings up Conan a few times in the book to my surprise. There wasn't a recipe for HT in there, but two of John's beers, well one from the Vermont pub, and another from the Alchemist. On the Alchemist brew, they said to underpitch, 6 million cells per.
Intersting enough paper. I just wonder who boils at 130C? (266F), and who boils for 400 minutes?
Some brewers are pumping beer through an external vessel which contains trapped hop material. This technique has the benefit of eliminating the potential CO2 scrubbing effect while minimizing oxygen introduction. Dry hopping in this manner can present a process problem especially if pellets are used; vegetative hop particles are entrained throughout the entire system resulting in a suspension that is very difficult to clarify using sedimentation or filtration. However, this problem is easily overcome using a centrifuge.
...after 18 days of storage 80% of the hydrocarbon terpenes had disappeared from a bottled model beer
From a research paper I am reading, potential reason HT has so many particles, a new technique of dry hopping:
Isnt this describing a hopback? Relatively new but also just as relatively popular
I think one dry hopping technique that really helps with the aroma is rousing the hops during that time. In Mitch Steele's book, the El Jefe recipe says to rouse the hops 2-3 times with co2 during a week. Vinnie from Russian River also uses this technique described in the Zymurgy recipe for Pliny here - https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/6351/doubleIPA.pdf Of course without a conical you would have to resort to swirling your container....
Think you could hook up an aeration stone to the inside of the airlock/bung of a standard bucket/carboy, and hook that up to CO2? You would need some sort of a 2-way valve so you could switch from the airlock to the CO2. ...No wait... you would probably still need venting through an airlock while you opened the CO2 line. A double drilled stopper/lid, one line for airlock, one for the aeration line, with a valve to prevent backflow during normal fermentation.
I think its possible if it is really a useful part of the process.
theveganbrewer, we actually did very similar things. My attempt yesterday was calculated at 42 IBUs at 60min with hopshot (5ml in 6gal batch). 20 IBUs at 5min, and 55 IBUs in the whirlpool.
I used Tasty's recommendation on setting a 30 minute whirlpool to a 20 minute hop addition in beersmith. I have no way of knowing if that is accurate, so the 55IBUs in the whirlpool is my best guess according to what Tasty recommends and I don't argue with Tasty.
To your point about the 175 degree magic number, there is a 'BeerSmith Home Brewing' podcast from May, 2012 with James Altwies, the president of Gorst Valley Hops, entitled "Hop Chemistry". Speaking about how to get the best aroma from a flame out addition, he did say to chill the wort to between 170-180 and then start a whirlpool. That you get the most aroma at that temperature. So, 175 may be a good spot to play with as far as whirlpooling goes. You can get from boiling to 175 pretty quickly, stop chilling and start a whilrpool.
I had to have the burner on the entire whirlpool to keep temps up and was between 175-180 the entire 30 minutes.
I am dryhopping in a keg and using the liquid out post as my co2 post, pushing co2 through from the bottom of the keg up. I am only dry hopping 48 hours as doing this gets all the aroma out in 24-48 hours.
Then gently crack the relief valve on the empty keg. The beer will flow gently over to the empty keg with minimum foam.
But, how does that leave the hops from the full keg behind? Does it not get clogged when transferring? I'm missing something, aren't I?
I wonder what a single, MASSIVE hopping at flame off (or apparently the magic 175 degrees) would do to the bitterness. I think I am going to give this a try right now....
This will be a one gallon all grain batch.
I am open to any recipe ideas/ ingredients.
Grain bill...anything, probably pale malt and 5-10% crystal malt
Hops, I have Simcoe, Zeus, Cascade, Chinook, Amarillo, Crystal, open to any combinations. I will probably add about 2 oz at 170 degrees. This should be equivalent to 20 ozs in a 10 gallon batch. Should I add more?
A 30 minute stand at 175 is equivelent to roughly a 7 minute hop addition
Has anyone been following the sort of reanalysis of whirlpool additions? I've been listening to a lot of podcasts and reading a lot of articles about hop utilization and the science behind it. Tasty from The Brewing Network has been doing it a lot and says that when you add a flameout and perform a 15-30 minute extended whirlpool, it actually imparts about the same bitterness of a 20 minute boil addition. Matt Brynildson of Firestone Walker says he's getting 22% utilization of pellet hops and half the total IBUs all from the whirlpool (realize it will be different for the home brewer for many reasons). Mitch Steele also talks about throwing a ton in the whirlpool for (I think) the new Enjoy By IPA and getting decent IBU. And of course everyone is agreement that it imparts a different profile, much higher aroma, and flavor than late boil additions. I don't know - I was planning on brewing my next clone attempt (the first with Conan and HopShot) an hour ago. But, now I'm toying with doing a 60 minute hopshot, just a small 5 minute addition, and pretty much move everything else to a whirlpool for 30 minutes. Might do a 3 gallon test batch so this experiment isn't too expensive.
Anyone ever play with moving most of the flavor/aroma additions to a whirlpool?
According to promash: 15.6 aa hop addition @7 mins= 139 IBUs. I don't think I will experience that. I honestly don't know what to expect, I was thinking along the lines of 50 IBUs. It goes aganist all brewlogic and all the books that I have read about hop utilization, yesterday I would have told anybody that 0 minute hops give no bitterness. Now I am questioning everything....
----No problemKeep good notes and keep track of temperatures so we can share in your experiment
So how much is too much? I put 14 oz in a 6 gallon batch, split between 5 minutes and 170.
My buddy just texted me a pic of him drinking some Heady, he is at Alchemist as we speak. I'm so jealous.
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