Does it amaze you at how many breweries are terrible at making beer?

See subject.
I live in RI.
There are a few breweries and brewpubs in the RI area.
For the most part, they make bad beer.
I feel as though most of the homebrewers in the area I know make really good beer and most of the commercial sites make bad beer.
I know it's all subjective, but is this an issue of commercial places trying to make commercial beer? Or brewers that just have no f****ing idea how to make a good brew? What's the deal?

Well I will agree with you that RI makes bad beer. RI also happens to be the new england **** hole underdog state. They make weiners though.

But a surprisingly high number of MA breweries are bad. And there are no CT breweries... It (the scene) is all in NY and VT and NH and ME. Don't ask me why.

Not at all. A lot of breweries are in it to make money and as such its not super surprising that a lot of startups don't really understand the craft beer market.

Brewing is an art. It's a skill that takes a good deal of practice and refining your technique.

Just because you can afford the most expensive golf clubs, doesn't make you Arnold Palmer. I've had homebrews ( My own and others ) that I would rate above many brewpub offerings.

Also it's all a bit subjective in the first place, I guess.

Why would you be amazed? Look how many restaraunts make bad food. Quality is always rare. That said the breweries that last for any length of time usually make good beer.

I don't know that I'd say that the breweries near me make bad beer, but I was almost shocked the first time I tasted some professional beers and immediately thought "these taste just like the beers I make." I don't know if that's an indictment on my brewing or theirs.

Mediocrity will always survive. That being said, I hope excellence will thrive. McDonalds survives for the simple fact that people know exactly what they are going to get... it doesn't matter if you are in Boston or LA your BigMac will be the same. People that take risks sometimes fail. People that want to make money on the "idea" of craft beer will not take risks. Some people thrive on risk, but often the perceived risk is higher than the actual risk because the person undertaking the risk has sufficient skill to reduce the overall risk.

What I am trying to say is that some people can't afford to take the risk to produce something truly sublime. Often, great beer isn't cheap to make. A failed batch or three of expensive beer is something a small scale start-up simple can't afford. There, they plod along in mediocrity. It is up to us as consumers and beer ambassadors to help educate the public (in a non-pretentious manor) about what has merit. I wish you good luck in your quest for good local beer. However, please keep trying the small start up and support your local beer establishment. Maybe you should start a joint?

The bigger the brewery, the better they are at making beer that the masses want.
Good beer is a matter of taste. To be big, they make beer that large numbers of people want. The large numbers of people want beer that many of us would not like. Bland, lacking distinct favor and character, by our standards.
We are not typical beer lovers or everyone would be homebrewing.

You will never see Black Butte being sold by the truckload at a Nascar event.

I agree I have been very underwhelmed by much of the local offerings here. I ask myself the same question as to why. These guys are pros and have access to the same information I do so what gives. It boggles my mind.

jtejedor said:

I agree I have been very underwhelmed by much of the local offerings here. I ask myself the same question as to why. These guys are pros and have access to the same information I do so what gives. It boggles my mind.

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The head brewer isn't typically the owner of the company. At many companies the brewers themselves are just employees; if the owner says to make an Adjunct Lager, you do it and you do it until the owner says to put it out the door. Its for this reason I was little taken aback that people were surprised that Budweiser brewers left to their own devices could and would make interesting beers. It isn't like they don't KNOW they're putting out bad/boring/whatever beer, its that they're doing what they're told to.

iambeer said:

Well I will agree with you that RI makes bad beer. RI also happens to be the new england **** hole underdog state. They make weiners though.

But a surprisingly high number of MA breweries are bad. And there are no CT breweries... It (the scene) is all in NY and VT and NH and ME. Don't ask me why.

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I know CT has at least one I've heard of: Cottrell, out of Pawcatuck, CT. Then there's a few microbreweries as well (City Steam, out of Hartford) that actually have some distribution across the state. There's a converted post office in Willimantic that's a microbrew now - eat food around the giant fermenters in the center.

There's a handful of others but all in all they're quiet.


I've been routinely disappointed by Shipyard's offerings up north. Pumpkinhead is kind of good but too heavy on the spice.

Now that I'm out in Ohio I've been finding a lot of beers I can agree with.

It always amazes me how much breweries can suck. I travel so often for work that I used to just look up the local breweries and blindly visit. The mediocrity is unbelievable.

I learned within a few trips that this is not the way to go. When you visit a city, always research the hell out the breweries in the area and ask others on your beer forums (HBT at the top ). The really good breweries are few and far between.

There are only a few cities where I believe that there are more good breweries than bad, and San Diego is one of those.

45_70sharps said:

The bigger the brewery, the better they are at making beer that the masses want.

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This is exactly true and the argument is not limited to beer.

Put it this way -

• Does it amaze you at how many bands are terrible at making music?
• Does it amaze you at how many restaurants are terrible at making delicious food?
• Does it amaze you at how many car makers are terrible at making cars?

Mediocrity is a fine line. You can go bargain basement and make crap beer at thin margins and own 90% of the market (ABInbev) or make mediocre beer at high margins and service every restaurant and bar in town with a taste that's better than budweiser but not so unique and flavorful that it gets in the way of this burger and football game.

"give me a beer" is still uttered around the world by men who walk into their local bar. that beer being an ultra hoppy 8% IPA or vanilla bean porter or belgian saison with orange peel...well that's too much "beer" for the normal drinker.

===

In short, if you want good beer, enjoy your home brew or find breweries that focus on quality beer but nearly every commodity that appeals to the masses will not be mind blowing. Most will just be good enough at a low enough cost to appeal to the average person who doesn't even know what a hop looks like.

Haputanlas said:

It always amazes me how much breweries can suck. I travel so often for work that I used to just look up the local breweries and blindly visit. The mediocrity is unbelievable.

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You have Jester King and Saint Arnold in your area. both are great breweries!

In ri I am not a fan of Trinity brew house. Grey Sail I wasn't a fan of until the Beervana event where they had some decent beers. Newport Storm I was never a fan of. But 'gansett is my go to cheap beer. Always gotta do your part.

othevad said:

See subject.
I live in RI.
There are a few breweries and brewpubs in the RI area.
For the most part, they make bad beer.
I feel as though most of the homebrewers in the area I know make really good beer and most of the commercial sites make bad beer.
I know it's all subjective, but is this an issue of commercial places trying to make commercial beer? Or brewers that just have no f****ing idea how to make a good brew? What's the deal?

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Granted, Narragansett is not my favorite beer, but I'm not so sure you ca say its made badly. Bud may not taste great to craft beer folks, but you have to be in awe of the brewing skill to make such a clean and consistent beer.

Just sayin (former Rhode Islander)

I guess I'm the odd one out. Either my town is blessed with an above-average number of exceptional brewers, or my standards are much lower than yours. Ottawa is currently experiencing a wonderful renaissance of craft beers, with almost a dozen new micro/nano-breweries popping up in the past 5 years. Prior to that, we just had a couple of brew pubs who served some of their own beer, but it wasn't sold anywhere outside their own doors.

While I'm not a fan of all of their beers, I've so far been able to find at least one or two of each of their beers that I quite like.

I find it hard to believe that anyone passionate enough about beer to take the huge financial risk of opening a brewery would lack the knowledge and skill to be able to produce a decent beer. Surely somewhere along the way, an investor/friend/family member would have told them, "Are you sure? This beer isn't actually that good."

Is this just a case of us being narcissistic "beer snobs," or are there really that many commercial brewery operations out there that don't even produce one good beer?

Ctforte said:

I am not a fan of Trinity brew house. Grey Sail I wasn't a fan of. Newport Storm I was never a fan of.

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OK, you're "not a fan" of them, but are they "terrible at making beer" (see thread title)? Do their beers have off-flavours? Are they inconsistent? Oxidized? Spoiled? Cloudly when the style demands clarity? What makes them "terrible" brewers, besides the fact that subjectively, you don't care for the flavor?

Ctforte said:

But 'gansett is my go to cheap beer. Always gotta do your part.

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I was gonna post this! OP, Narraganset is by far the best cheap beer one can buy. Quit your bitching

No, I'm spoiled with awesome breweries. Even the nano's out here are really good. Sometimes I'll find something about a particular brewery that I just don't like and it's just a personal thing.

I've worked in 2 breweries and a few brew pubs.
Both of the breweries went under and one of the brew pubs went under.
Its incredibly expensive to start up a brewery if you intend on making a profit in the first 5 years.
I'm of the opinion that most of the bad breweries start out with good intentions and a pretty decent knowledge base.
They often get hampstrung by costs and margins, or they hampstring themselves to achieve better margins.
Like they decide to cut out that last pound of hops that they've been adding, in order to save a bundle over the course of a year.
Or their margins start dwindling, and they get behind on payments to the grain supplier, so they have to cut out some specialty malts or substitute some rice or corn for the base malt, like budweiser does, to make the beer cheaper.

Generally any "brewery" that I have ever went to that had crappy beer was actually a "brew pub" - where the primary concern was the restaurant and the brewing was sort of a novelty that was used to set themselves apart from other restaurants. Although, I have had plenty of bad beer too. One of the things that really surprises me though is the number of times I have been at a brewpub/brewery and been served beer that you could tell came through dirty lines. The beer might have been fine, but the fact that they didn't take the time to clean their lines on a regular basis caused it to be terrible. To me, that is just idiotic and inexcusable.

iambeer said:

Well I will agree with you that RI makes bad beer. RI also happens to be the new england **** hole underdog state. They make weiners though.

But a surprisingly high number of MA breweries are bad. And there are no CT breweries... It (the scene) is all in NY and VT and NH and ME. Don't ask me why.

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I found a lot of NE beers are pretty bad when I lived there. I think a big part of it is that they're trying to use english yeast strains but are not treating them properly a lot of the time. This is especially bad in Maine, where Shipyard contract brews most everyone's beers (except for Maine, Rising Tide, and Allagash) and only uses ringwood... and something is terribly off with how they use it. I wound up leaving beer after beer on the bar last time I was up there. I hate diacetyl bombs, and I was served beer after beer with that issue.

On a tour of Shipyard I "won" an extra large tasting of their "summer ale" by answering a question right... can you imagine an American brewery using ringwood poorly in a super light summer beer? It was horrid.

MA is kinda saved by CBC and Pretty Things (and Slumbrew now too), outside of that I wasn't to big on a lot of it... but all of those put out a good variety of great beer.

bovineblitz said:

MA is kinda saved by CBC and Pretty Things (and Slumbrew now too), outside of that I wasn't to big on a lot of it... but all of those put out a good variety of great beer.

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I absolutely love Pretty Things. And CBC is the best brewpub I've been to.

bovineblitz said:

MA is kinda saved by CBC and Pretty Things (and Slumbrew now too), outside of that I wasn't to big on a lot of it... but all of those put out a good variety of great beer.

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Don't forget Jack's Abbey...no one can make a lager like they can

Interesting.

http://newamerica.net/events/2012/big_beer_blitzes_america

Yeah I'm blessed to live in Madison, WI. Lots of good local breweries and New Glarus is world-class. However a lot of beers I find tend to be subjective although most WI breweries seem to have something for everyone's taste. For instance, even my mother who doesn't like beer made me leave 2 bottles of Laughing Fox at home for her to drink.

HbgBill said:

great podcast on the Brewing Network about this. One brewery tried to make better beer.. and it was better to the brewer.. but, the customers quit buying it because it didn't taste like what they expected. I think that's the reason a lot of breweries that make meh beer is because that's what their customers expect. Sure, they won't get any awards at a brewing competition.. but, they get awards from their customers in the form of $$$

Just my opinion....

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Sounds about right. However, the craft beer industry is still growing significantly. Eventually, the $$$ will flow to the better breweries with better beer.

iambeer said:

Well I will agree with you that RI makes bad beer. RI also happens to be the new england **** hole underdog state. They make weiners though.

But a surprisingly high number of MA breweries are bad. And there are no CT breweries... It (the scene) is all in NY and VT and NH and ME. Don't ask me why.

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Talk out your arse much?

There's:
- Thomas Hooker (granted, they're pretty inconsistent)
- Back East Brewing (I'm told they make an awesome RIS and I can attest to the quality of their porter)
- Cavalry out in Oxford (they also make a really good Porter, and quite a few other good English styles)
- Old Burnside Brewing
- New England Brewing (their Ghandi-Bot IIPA is awesome)
- Two Roads Brewing (just came online, don't know much of anything about them yet)
- Cottrell, as someone has already pointed out

And that doesn't even get into the handful of nano's, good brewpubs, or the handful of breweries that should be coming online in the next 6 months.

I actually find it surprising just how many breweries we have in CT, and how many more are in the works, considering how relatively small a state we are, and how tax-unfriendly a state CT is.

IMHO we as homebrewers expect more from professional brewers, and we should. Our standards are set at a higher level than most, on top of and coupled with the perception from other folks who are not into homebrewing or "in the know" about craft beer, see the small scale breweries as "over the top" and "too rich".

Those expectations and perceptions along with poor practice and margin control are a recipe for mediocracy. Sam Calgione spends a ton of time explaining his brews at tastings, marketing his beers, and educatiing consumers. Most small scale brewpubs tend not to focus on those aspects but more on other parts of the business, so we as consumers end up with average output.

From my experience with local brewpubs, handling, knowledge, and education on brews is what is holding most of them down. Breweries, such as Dogfish Head, Wyerbacher, Kane, Climax, Flying Fish to name a few, all take the time to describe, define, and teach customers on not only their process and procedure, but most will share recipe information as well. I know I am talking breweries here, but the point is that if a Brew Pub were to focus a little more on their beer, maybe there would be better outcomes. After all we do call them BREW Pubs and not Pub Brewerys.

Most times if one goes to a local brewpub and ask the waiters or waitresses about a brew they have on draught, guarantee you get minimal information at best (go as far to ask how often their lines are changed and I bet you'll get a blank stare!)

WW

I'm going to go against the general responses so far. I don't think these brew pubs that are brewing meh beers are doing it for their mass appeal. If they solely brewed styles that were popular to the masses (like light lagers) I'd buy that but ive experienced a fair number of lack luster beers across the board if styles. I think it comes down to a focus (potentially shortsighted) on the economics or just a lack of focus on quality. Just because somebody starts a business doesn't mean they're equipped technically or with business acumen. Tons of terrible poorly run restaurants pop up and fail all if the time because they're ill conceived and mismanaged

stratslinger said:

Talk out your arse much?

There's:
- Thomas Hooker (granted, they're pretty inconsistent)
- Back East Brewing (I'm told they make an awesome RIS and I can attest to the quality of their porter)
- Cavalry out in Oxford (they also make a really good Porter, and quite a few other good English styles)
- Old Burnside Brewing
- New England Brewing (their Ghandi-Bot IIPA is awesome)
- Two Roads Brewing (just came online, don't know much of anything about them yet)
- Cottrell, as someone has already pointed out

And that doesn't even get into the handful of nano's, good brewpubs, or the handful of breweries that should be coming online in the next 6 months.

I actually find it surprising just how many breweries we have in CT, and how many more are in the works, considering how relatively small a state we are, and how tax-unfriendly a state CT is.

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What he said

We do have a ton, some are good, some not so much. The brewpubs are pretty top notch though....especially Willibrew, god I love that place.

I'm so glad I incited a riot from my drunken posting after drinking another terrible RI beer that a friend gave me.
The one brewery in RI that I have had a decent beer from is the Revival Brewing Company. I had a double black ipa that was quite tasty.

Perhaps in the original post I shouldn't have worded it by saying "bad beer," but perhaps I should have used, "unmemorable, run of the mill, bland, no body and boring" =)

Also, in full agreement about Pretty Things, and some of those CT breweries mentioned. I guess I'm a bit starved for having a real badass brewery/brewpub near me. I'm bitter damnit!

I'm going to go against the general responses so far. I don't think these brew pubs that are brewing meh beers are doing it for their mass appeal. If they solely brewed styles that were popular to the masses (like light lagers) I'd buy that but ive experienced a fair number of lack luster beers across the board if styles. I think it comes down to a focus (potentially shortsighted) on the economics or just a lack of focus on quality. Just because somebody starts a business doesn't mean they're equipped technically or with business acumen. Tons of terrible poorly run restaurants pop up and fail all if the time because they're ill conceived and mismanaged

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I agree. I think that it takes a lotta ballz to start a business and sometimes those who have the ballz to do it lack in the detail focus skills needed to make good product. We have all worked for the "just get it done" guy and for me, that is a funny statement. To make good quality anything it takes skill, time, and focus... and usually money. I look to Russian River as the benchmark for a brewery that is focused on quality over margin, and they make a damn fine product. In NE I really think Harpoon has done a good job in becoming a fairly large and successful brewery. They make beer for the masses, yet the brewery in Windsor, VT makes the Leviathan line of kick ass imperial offerings, and thier brewers are into it. Plus, that is a great place to hang out!!!!!

Thank you Stratslinger for setting the record straight... CT does have quite a few breweries! Back East makes an insanely good Imperial Choco Stout!!!

othevad said:

I'm so glad I incited a riot from my drunken posting after drinking another terrible RI beer that a friend gave me.
The one brewery in RI that I have had a decent beer from is the Revival Brewing Company. I had a double black ipa that was quite tasty.

Perhaps in the original post I shouldn't have worded it by saying "bad beer," but perhaps I should have used, "unmemorable, run of the mill, bland, no body and boring" =)

Also, in full agreement about Pretty Things, and some of those CT breweries mentioned. I guess I'm a bit starved for having a real badass brewery/brewpub near me. I'm bitter damnit!

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Haha I don't think you started a riot. For 3 years I lived in Somerville (home of Pretty Things) and worked in Cambridge across the street from CBC. So I'm rather spoiled.

I do spend a lot of time in Providence and I've always had plenty to drink. Never really gone with much of the local stuff though.

Breweries have to make cheap beer to turn a profit. That's the bottom line. Why do you think every lousy brewpub makes the same styles of beer ? Pale, amber, ipa, stout...

Cost effectiveness.

It amazes me that there's so many people out there that think that taste buds are universal, so if the beer tastes bad to them it must taste bad to everybody.

LandoLincoln said:

It amazes me that there's so many people out there that think that taste buds are universal, so if the beer tastes bad to them it must taste bad to everybody.

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For me it's not so much that the beer tastes bad, it's that my palate wants nothing to do with it

Why do so many breweries brew "bad" beer?

I'll add my 2 cents...I think there are several reasons:

1) Brewing on a large mulit-barrel scale is different from brewing on a home brew scale. It takes time to adjust and learn, quite often the local brewers that are good get lured away to larger breweries...or leave to start a place on their own. In many cases the visionary or brewer that created the image and recipes...and earned the reputation...is no longer around...over time process change, pinching pennies...or apathy take a toll.

2) In many growing small breweries...each large batch HAS to produce income. they can't afford to toss a bad or blah batch....the ingredients have been bought, and the $$ just can't get thrown out...so they sell it anyway. The reality is most customers don't know any better...but as homebrewers we know..becasue we have made the same mistakes.

3)Many may not agree with me on this....but the popularity of craft brew is making it hard. Every brewery feels like they need to do something different or unique to stand out. We all know how hard it is to create something new...that has mass appeal. There is probably a reason others are not making a Jalapeno Agave Imperial Wit.

4)We are used to our own style...we brew to our own taste, we use the yeast we prefer, the malts we enjoy...and hops that make us smile. Once you get used to giving yourself exactly what you prefer....does anything else measure up?

LandoLincoln said:

It amazes me that there's so many people out there that think that taste buds are universal, so if the beer tastes bad to them it must taste bad to everybody.

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That's ultimately it isn't it. I live on Long Island (NY) and we are blessed with good local breweries and access to craft beer in general. However every party I seem to go to the beer of choice is Bud light or Mic Ultra and most people seem more than happy with this. While that's not something that I enjoy, everyone's tastes are different. I was drinking an Oktoberfest and several people who tried it (Bud drinkers) didn't like it. Everyone is different.

If local breweries, brewpubs, etc.. are staying in business - clearly some people like and buy their beer.