Boiling LME in a bucket?

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Apatride

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Hi guys,

I have my recipe ready (taking bits of recipes from here and substituting what I cannot get in Ireland). I have my order of ingredients and equipment almost ready but I still have a few questions:
1) I am ordering from HomeBrewCompany.ie and they sell "sprayed dry extract", is this simply dry extract and can I apply the quantities I have seen in recipes or is there a difference? (I assume this is the same but...)
2) I can not boil using my stove since it will never been powerful enough for several gallons so I was planing to use a plastic bucket with a boiler in it. I have been told that this would be a bad idea if I decide to use liquid extract since it would be a nightmare to clean. Is it really that bad or are there ways to boil the wort with liquid extract without having to scrub or throw away the heating piece?
3) Is there any place where I can find an equivalence of quantities between dry extract and liquid extract? ie: If a recipe says 8lbs of dry extract, what would be the quantity if I replace it with liquid extract? (No LHBS here and very limited availability of most ingredients)
4) I plan to start with an IPA, I like the citrus taste of IPAs but I dislike the grapefruit bitter taste (my favourite one would be the Punk IPA from Brewdog). Is a summit a proper substitute for the very rare Amarillo?

More questions later but these are the most important for now.

Thanks,

Sam
 
Spray dry extract is DME (actuallt LME that has been spray dried to make DME :))

DME points-per-pound-per-gallon = ~44 (so 1lb in 1 gallon = 1.044SG)
LME points-per-pound-per-gallon = ~37

Amarillo substitutes are Cascade, Centennial, and Simcoe. The Cascade does have grapefruir character though.
 
  1. Spray Malt is Dried Malt Extract (DME)
  2. Fermentation buckets are made of High-density polyethylene, which is capable of 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Because boiling temperature is 212 degrees Fahrenheit, obviously that wouldn’t work. If you can't boil on a stove top, use a CLEAN turkey fryer.
  3. 2lbs of Liquid Malt Extract (LME) is considered equivilant to 1.6lbs of Dried Malt Extract (DME)
  4. Cascade, Centennial and Summit are often used as substitutes for Amarillo. Cascade has a pronounced grapefruit citrus aroma and flavor, the others do not.
Simcoe also makes for a great IPA hop and produces citrus and pine flavors.
 
While I don't think I would do it myself, many people have had success boiling in HDPE buckets. Not sure where you got the 120 number from but it can take boiling temps.

EDIT: Actually I think the 120 you are thinking of is 120 C.
 
So if the bucket/boiler is ok temperature wise, will it be a nightmare to clean if I am using LME? What about DME?
 
Ahtanum is a more direct sub for amarillo. & I really don't think a food grade plastic bucket will take boil temp. Just use a SS stock pot of 4-5 gallons to do a partial boil of 2.5-3 gallons on the stove & top off with fridge cooled water. I even do that with partial mash.
 
homecraftbrewing said:
  1. Fermentation buckets are made of High-density polyethylene, which is capable of 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Because boiling temperature is 212 degrees Fahrenheit, obviously that wouldn’t work. If you can't boil on a stove top, use a CLEAN turkey fryer.
Click to expand...


  1. FYI:

    HDPE Quick Facts:


    Maximum Temperature: 248°F 120°C
    Minimum Temperature: -148°F -100°C
    Autoclavable: No
    Melting Point: 266°F 130°C
    Tensile Strength: 4550 psi
    Hardness: SD65
    UV Resistance: Poor
    Translucent
    Rigid
    Specific Gravity: 0.95
 
Apatride said:
So if the bucket/boiler is ok temperature wise, will it be a nightmare to clean if I am using LME? What about DME?
Click to expand...

I don't know why it would be any worse to clean up after LME then DME. Whatever you use, make sure you get the extract well dissolved and you shouldn't have any problems. You should probably turn the heating element off while you dissolve the extract to avoid possible scorching.
 
SteveWPG said:
While I don't think I would do it myself, many people have had success boiling in HDPE buckets. Not sure where you got the 120 number from but it can take boiling temps.

EDIT: Actually I think the 120 you are thinking of is 120 C.
Click to expand...
Your right. I had a brain fart and was mixing up Celsius and Fahrenheit in my head. I tried to go back and edit it after I submitted but I guess it didn't work.
 
You want to be sure to turn off the heating element before adding the LME. The big difference from DME is the tendency to settle to the bottom of the pot. Having a hot heating element there could leave you with burnt LME coating your heater.
 
Maybe the problem with LME would be that, when you pour it into water, it sinks right to the bottom. As long as you scraped it all off the bottom to get it all dissolved you shouldn't have an issue. Also I would try to avoid getting LME on the heating element, it could trap the heat in and scorch.

Does that make sense at all?

EDIT: Apparently I didn't read the last post. He said all the things I was going to say.
 
No one else sees a problem with boiling in a plastic bucket?

The strength and durability are not related to the BPA or whateverTF the thing leaches out at 212F

Least of which could be an off plastic flavor.

Can't find it, but I believe "FOODSAFE" fails at 180F-190F

you are insane to do this. Use whatever pot you would have on the stove.
 
Cheezydemon3: I would use the stove if I could but this electric one takes more than 30 minutes to boil 2 or 3 litres of water for pasta (I have to boil the water in a kettle first if I want it ready faster) so it will cost me a fortune and will be a nightmare.
I know lots of guys who using plastic buckets/boilers regularly and the only thing I have heard against that is that liquid extract can lead to disaster with the heating piece. I definitely understand your point of view and if I had a gaz stove, I d use a pot but here, this is not an option.

And guys, thanks a lot for all your answers, if all goes well, I ll order tonight and brew my first batch this weekend.
 
Apatride said:
Cheezydemon3: I would use the stove if I could but this electric one takes more than 30 minutes to boil 2 or 3 litres of water for pasta (I have to boil the water in a kettle first if I want it ready faster) so it will cost me a fortune and will be a nightmare.
I know lots of guys who using plastic buckets/boilers regularly and the only thing I have heard against that is that liquid extract can lead to disaster with the heating piece. I definitely understand your point of view and if I had a gaz stove, I d use a pot but here, this is not an option.

And guys, thanks a lot for all your answers, if all goes well, I ll order tonight and brew my first batch this weekend.
Click to expand...

Couldn't you use the same pot, just not on the stove? My only concern is for your health.

Turkey fryer craig's list $10......
 
Turkey fryers are like hen's teeth ( or should that be turkey's teeth) in the UK and Ireland. We don't fry turkeys here as a rule lol. Many of the electric brewers I know over here use HDPE buckets without issue so that should be ok.

As mentioned the big issue is burning the extract by adding it whilst the boiler is on as it can stick to the element.

I've thought about buying and importing a propane turkey fryer from Overstock.com as they work out around £80 but I'm a bit skeptical of the claim that there will be no additional duty to pay on delivery, also I can't find anyone able to confirm that propane tanks have a universal fitting.

My mate lives outside Lurgan in the North and orders most of his homebrew supplies from an Irish supplier as the shipping costs are better and the range is more extensive than he can get in Belfast. 'Ll find out who he orders from and let you know if you're struggling for ingredients.

On the subject of IPA hops I got given a pouch of Atlas hops to try out. I can't find much about them other than they are described as a super styrian Golding from Slovenia. They have an Alpha Acid of 8-10% so should be a bit more IPAish than normal styrian Golding hops which pitch in about 6%. Don't know if they'll be a more intense spicy hop or might have some floral/citrus notes yet. They seem readily available so I'll try them out and let you know what I think.
 
God forgive me, but when hearing people discuss this and that about hops, when boiling in a god damned plastic fermenter all I can do is throw up my hands and laugh.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
Couldn't you use the same pot, just not on the stove?
Click to expand...

Not sure I get his one. Are there other options than the stove do heat the water when using metal pots? The main reason for using a bucket is the heating piece in it which will be far more efficient than my stove.

McSpanner, it would be great! I ordered from HomeBrewCompany and I know about West something but if there are others...
 
cheezydemon3 said:
God forgive me, but when hearing people discuss this and that about hops, when boiling in a god damned plastic fermenter all I can do is throw up my hands and laugh.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean, I had the same reaction the first time I heard of it but have seen it done successfully so many times with no adverse effect to taste or aroma, that I now know it works successfully. Even a vigorous rolling boil stays safely below the max useable temp of HDPE. I even know a few award winning beers that were boiled in this manner.

Commercially HDPE buckets are often used for distributing jams and preserves that get dispensed into them at temps higher than 105°c, without issue.
 
Apatride said:
McSpanner, it would be great! I ordered from HomeBrewCompany and I know about West something but if there are others...
Click to expand...

I'll speak to him in a bit and see what I can find out for you. Where abouts are you located in Ireland?
 
You could get a water-heater element fairly cheap and install it into a metal pot like so many electric brewers on this site use. they all seem complicated because most of them use PID controllers and such to minimize how much work they have to put into a brew day, but when it's all said and done, all you really need is a heat element and a power outlet (most use the US dryer outlets so they can get 220V, but I don't know what the standard electrical wiring is where you live)
 
Ireland is all 220v 50hz so no issue there.

Even getting large metal pots over here can be a challenge, the largest commonly available pot is 10L anything larger is ludicrously expensive compared with the prices I see on the US sites, maybe twice the $ figure in £ or € so roughly 3-4 times in real terms. I suppose it's supply and demand in action.... I think that's why so many British home brewers that want to go electric choose the HDPE boiler route. A full set up with two kettle elements can be bought for less than the cost of a large stainless steel pot.

Here's one in action.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Apatride said:
McSpanner: I m in Cork with no car so online is my only choice
Click to expand...

Cool, I was born in Cork Royal Infirmary ( which I think is now called South Infirmary), lived out in Clonakilty for the first year or so before my parents moved back to the North.

He says he uses http://www.homebrewwest.ie/index.asp as they seem to carry most stuff from grain to corny kegs. I see they have a 23ltr stainless boiler for €99 with a 2.5kw element. I wonder if they deliver to England lol
 
You could get a large aluminum pot and go weldless on the element fitting. Aluminum pots are much cheaper than stainless (and easier to drill). Hope any of this helps
 

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