Mike McDole's Longshot Winner Pliny Clone will NOT be brewed by Sam Adams

I just heard this news on TBN's Sunday Session. Jim Koch called Mike McDole sometime over the weekend and said that due to the hop shortage, they could not produce his beer as part of the upcoming Longshot six pack to be released in February.

They said that if things get back on track, it will be released next year instead.

Bumming news for anyone wanting to try "Pliny."

That's a BS lame cop out.

Time to boycott Sam Adams till they live up to their commitments. They could have made one batch of the stuff at the very least.

Sorry, but I can't stand welchers, and this one stinks to high heaven.

That sucks. A lot.

EdWort said:

That's a BS lame cop out.

Time to boycott Sam Adams till they live up to their commitments. They could have made one batch of the stuff at the very least.

Sorry, but I can't stand welchers, and this one stinks to high heaven.

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I am with ya Ed!!! What a copout!!
JJ

That's not too cool coming from a company that you know has enough money to produce the product.

Jekster said:

That's not too cool coming from a company that you know has enough money to produce the product.

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That's the reason I'm PO'd. It's the principle of it.

Screw the little guy after they got loads of publicity and support from the home craft brewer (notice not homebrewer).

Take advantage of problem to back out of a commitment is so lame a$$ed when they can afford to at least do one production run.

Since I'm a man of principle and due to Koch's shortage of principle, there won't be any Sam Adam's products purchased for my household, while dining out, while entertaining clients who drink mass quantities of beer, for corporate parties, picnics, or just plain thirsty.

I'll drink water before I touch another Sam Adam's product till they live up to their commitment to produce Mike's winning beer!

And here I thought Sam Adams was renowned for using an "almost reckless amount of hops" in their beers.

LMAO

I don't like SA beer much in the first place. I've tried nearly everything they brew. In fact, after reading about the Longshot Contest, I made it a point to try and find a SA beer that I like. I convinced myself that the Summer Ale was pretty tasty. I think I've just been convinced otherwise.

What a copout.

Sir Humpsalot said:

And here I thought Sam Adams was renowned for using an "almost reckless amount of hops" in their beers.

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That commercial always made me grin a little...now it genuinely pisses me off.

They did make some at least once. They had at GABF to give out when they announced the winners.

Complete BS. Glad I don't give them my Business anyways.

EdWort said:

Sorry, but I can't stand welchers, and this one stinks to high heaven.

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Don't make bets with any Brewer's fans on this board.

As for not making the beer, I thought it was BS that they'd pick a clone to be the winner. Ohh...maybe next year the winner will be a boston lager clone.

Cheesefood said:

Don't make bets with any Brewer's fans on this board.

As for not making the beer, I thought it was BS that they'd pick a clone to be the winner. Ohh...maybe next year the winner will be a boston lager clone.

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I hope next year every brewer tells them to flip off or send in clones of SA competitors.

No wonder they are exploiting the hop situation. It must make them throw up in their mouths a little to have a competitor clone win.

Yeah, as someone said before, they did make one batch which was shared at the GABF.

To play devil's advocate, and since I listened to what was said, I don't think affording the hops was an issue. I think it was the availability of the hops.

To put matters into perspective, this beer has 16 ounces of hops per 5 gallons. Who knows what goes into a million BBL operation. Yes, BBrewing can afford it, but perhaps the hops are just not there to meet need.

PseudoChef said:

To play devil's advocate, and since I listened to what was said, I don't think affording the hops was an issue. I think it was the availability of the hops.

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Especially since I think a lot of the hops are one that SA doesn't use. Probably couldn't get a in a bid in time to reserve the massive amount they would need.

You don't think it had anything to do with finally realizing(or finding out late) that they were about to produce a beer strikingly(apparently) similar to another commercially produced beer?

Absolute BS. Complete and utter BS.

Landhoney, that's an interesting hypothesis, but I've got to work under the assumption that they would have simply said "it's too close to an existing commercial recipe" than to say, in effect, "we don't want to support the winning homebrewer."

Sam Adams - F*ck em!

landhoney said:

You don't think it had anything to do with finally realizing(or finding out late) that they were about to produce a beer strikingly(apparently) similar to another commercially produced beer?

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I think that's the crux of the matter. Maybe Vinnie called Jim and asked him not to do that to him.

SA producing the beer would have been GOOD for both brewers. Competition, controversy, sells.

Mike and Vinny are friends. Vinny is well aware about the beer and has given him the permission to do so.

Cheesefood said:

I think that's the crux of the matter. Maybe Vinnie called Jim and asked him not to do that to him.

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Then why don't they just say it rather than coming up with some garbage excuse?

Better yet...why'd they pick a clone brew as a winner if they weren't gonna brew it?

Yuri_Rage said:

Then why don't they just say it rather than coming up with some garbage excuse?

Better yet...why'd they pick a clone brew as a winner if they weren't gonna brew it?

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Amen Yuri....

They also said it will be coming out next year, just not this year.

I don't see why there's all of a sudden all this hate toward Sam Adams.

If you have a great IPA that won a competition that needs 1000 pounds of Chinook, and there aren't that many Chinook hops left, you just can't brew it. It's a competition winner, so substituting something would then lead to it no longer being the beer that won the comp, and therefore unfair to the other finalists.

Yuri_Rage said:

Then why don't they just say it rather than coming up with some garbage excuse?

Better yet...why'd they pick a clone brew as a winner if they weren't gonna brew it?

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Well hopefully 'they' (SA) didn't pick it as the winner. If their Longshot competition has any merit whatsoever, all entries are judged by National BJCP judges who have nothing at all to do with The Boston Brewing Company.

ohiobrewtus said:

Well hopefully 'they' (SA) didn't pick it as the winner. If their Longshot competition has any merit whatsoever, all entries are judged by National BJCP judges who have nothing at all to do with The Boston Brewing Company.

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It is BJCP judged.

PseudoChef said:

I don't see why there's all of a sudden all this hate toward Sam Adams.

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Because they welched on a bet citing cost as the reason. (We're speculating that there's more to the story...but that's really beside the point)

That'd be like me hosting an HBT contest offering a free stirplate to the first guy who sends me a six-pack of homebrew, then refusing to hold up my end of the deal if the price of electronics doubled. I would likely be banned from this site for something like that.

Likewise, I am banning SA from my fridge.

On the other hand, I wasn't cheated out of anything. You weren't cheated out of anything. The winner was cheated a little, but he seems cool with it. So who gives a rip? It really has nothing to do with me and so long as there isn't a great group of people being royally screwed, I really don't care.

I still, however, find it hilarious that the excuse is coming from the company that uses a reckless amount of hops. LOL

Sir Humpsalot said:

On the other hand, I wasn't cheated out of anything. You weren't cheated out of anything. The winner was cheated a little, but he seems cool with it. So who gives a rip? It really has nothing to do with me and so long as there isn't a great group of people being royally screwed, I really don't care.

I still, however, find it hilarious that the excuse is coming from the company that uses a reckless amount of hops. LOL

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You and I were cheated out of the opportunity to try a great beer. The winner was cheated out of the opportunity to share his great beer on a national scale.

The company that uses a "reckless amount of hops" is a bunch of hypocrites.

I'm in on the boycott. That is BS by Sam Adams.

Should we start a www.boycottsamadams.com?

This doesn't completely discount everything Sam Adams has done for homebrewers, so no, I don't think a www.boycottsamadams.com is called for. This is still a really really disappointing development though. I feel bad for McDole, he seemed super stoked about having his beer available nationwide.

PseudoChef said:

I don't see why there's all of a sudden all this hate toward Sam Adams.

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Yeah, especially since everyone doesn't have all the details... the exact reasons why are all assumptions it sounds so it's pretty silly to flat out say you're boycotting them over this until concrete details are out.

Perhaps it's not an issue of money at all, maybe their hops suppliers flat out won't supply them with the amount of hops they needed for the beer on the scale Sam Adams is planning to produce it. Many breweries have contracts for various hops and with the shortage suppliers aren't as flexible. The reasons given on the show were of hops shortage were in the midst of... many breweries are having trouble securing their hops for the next year as it is...

They did say they'd be able to brew it next year afterall... Pliny is a tasty beer so it'll be cool when Sam finally brews it. On another note, they did just take a big 25% stock hit recently...

Or maybe....just maybe if Sammy Adams doesn't produce this beer this year, there may be actually a few hops left laying around that I might....just might be able to brew a few batches this year. Otherwise, if they just went ahead and charged on, you and I might not have anything left to brew with.

I'd like to see a public announcement type ad aired explaining the situation, explaining that it will be probably brewed next year, and then when they do brew it, advertise the livin' hell out of it to make it up to McDole for the delay.

I'm willin' to cut Sammy Adams some slack,Jim Koch and SA have done alot for the promotion of craft beer and homebrewing, but I'll damn well be lookin for McDole's beer next year....and if Sammy doesn't produce it and is quiet about it, hoping everybody just forgets about it, then I'll be pissed.

Allan

If this truly is an issue of the hop shortage, brew another one of McDole's non-hoppy recipes. He's got almost as many competition wins as Jamil, right? In effect, continue to reward the winner, even if his winning recipe is unbrewable.

That's not a perfect solution, of course; whatever the other recipe was, it didn't win Longshot. So, kick out the Grape Ale from the sixer (is ANYONE stoked about that one?) and include the alternative McDole brew and the Longshot runner up. Or, keep the Grape Ale, but only include one bottle, then include one bottle of either the runner-up Longshot brew or the McDole alternate (so that there would be four different beers in the sixer).

Finally, if it IS an issue related to it being a quasi-clone, then the rules could have and should have specifically disallowed commercial brew clones from entry. That would have been perfectly reasonable, IMHO, given the ultimate purpose of the competition.

They could rename the contest to "It will be a Long Shot if we ever brew the winning recipe"

Might want to wait for the details to come out before taking up pitchforks and torches.....


Anywho, the original beer is going to be bottled by Russian River & Vinny himself when they get the new brewery online so I am a bit more excited about that one than the clone brewed by Boston Beer Co.

Yuri_Rage said:

Because they welched on a bet citing cost as the reason. (We're speculating that there's more to the story...but that's really beside the point)

That'd be like me hosting an HBT contest offering a free stirplate to the first guy who sends me a six-pack of homebrew, then refusing to hold up my end of the deal if the price of electronics doubled. I would likely be banned from this site for something like that.

Likewise, I am banning SA from my fridge.

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As I've said before, they didn't cite cost as the reason. They cited availability. Two different things.

Maybe I was a little harsh yesterday. I was tired and easily irritated. I'll wait for a public announcement before spewing forth any more wrath. The whole situation just plain stinks.

I think I will hold any judgment too. Couple questions before I decided what to think:
-Are they putting out a 6 pack from the contest at all?
-Will one of Mike's beers be in it?
-Will they mention the problem publicly (on the 6 pack, commercial, not just a press release)?
-Will the contest rules prohibit clones of commercially available beers next year?

PseudoChef said:

As I've said before, they didn't cite cost as the reason. They cited availability. Two different things.

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Exactly. So what if they don't brew it this year? All the hops that SA would need to do a commercial offering of a clone are hops that would be out of the market and unavailable to the rest of us. They're gonna brew it, just not THIS year. And besides, don't you think it's a TAD irresponsible to start marketing a SUPER hopped beer during a HUGE hop shortage?

A bunch of whining about nothing IMHO.

All the money in the world is not going to buy you hops if there aren't any hops left to buy. Knowing this company (regardless of what you think of their product) it seems unlikely to me that they are withholding production due to cost.

Side note: I do love how we all love to pile on at the slightest provocation.