WLP 007 Dry English Ale attenuation problem?

I recently brewed a surly furious clone with sg of 1.065 and it only went down to 1.020 sfter two weeks in primary. I made a 900ml starter with one vial using a stirplate. Pitched at 62 and raised over 5 days to 70.

Doesn't 67% attenuation seem kinda low? I mashed at 153 but maybe my thermometer is off? I calibrate it at freezing, but I've heard that calibrating closer to mash temps is better.

It does seem a bit low- I would expect 70% at least from that yeast. I have to suspect your mash thermometer is off- at least that would be the easy answer!

In my experience 007 has always been a winner...

I had this happen to me on an oatmeal stout...about the same og.

I've recently learned since it its sucha beast, it loves oxygen. Did you oxyginate? I also use nutrient and haven't had any problems. This is my go to yeast and I use it in pretty much all my ales, except belgians, and the other yeast specific beers.

I'm thinking your thermometer was off. WLP007 always ferments well for me, and I ferment it around 62 as well. My money is on mash temp.

Sorry to revive an old thread but have EXACTLY this same situation. SF kit from NB, mash at 153 (automated system - very accurate), 1065 OG and stopped at 1.020/1. Primary 8 days and fermented at 66F. Never had this problem before with this yeast and find it peculiar that someone else had the exact same situation occur. I oxygenated for 60 second with pure oxygen and pitched a 3 liter stirplate starter at high kraussen. The taste of the hydro sample definitely confirms residual sweetness - is this found in the Surly commercial version?

I've taken my stir wand and rousted the yeast at the bottom, as best as one can with WLP007, and it's sitting at 69F. Will see if that gets me another couple points.

Well, rousing the yeast seems to have restarted fermentation - given it's still bubbling this morning and yeast still appear in suspension. Guessing the yeast got lazy given the low end fermentation temp of 65. Will report back with a gravity reading this weekend.

Hydro says 1019 for the last couple days and all signs of fermentation are gone. Beer still has a little more residual sweetness than I would have expected and not sure if that's on par with the commercial version or if my process has fallen short somewhere. Any Surly commercial drinkers have some input on the sweetness of the original? It's got come crystal in it so maybe I'm just going in with the wrong expectations of a yet to be dry hopped IPA.

This one flocs like crazy. I'm at just above 70%, so it's likely the crystal malt and malt bill but the recipe by design is supposed to ferment to 1016 per NB - bit that's with a different strain that I'm not familiar with unfortunately. I'm going to let it sit a few mire days and sloshes the carboy again.

I like this yeast and never have had this problem before. Don't have access to beer smith as I'm on the road with e iPad but low to mid 70's is what I've experienced with this yeast previously.

With the dry version S04 I usually get 80% attenuation! Not called dry ale for nuttin'

I made a furious type ipa and just transferred to secondary. Og 1065. Fg 1018 @ 3 weeks primary. I am pleased with the resultant but I would have liked it to dry out a bit more. Extract+ 1lb crystal malt.

As a closing note, rousting my yeast with the stir wand a couple times got this down to where it should be - 1016. The beer is fantastic even slightly under carbonated and will be brewing again. Not sure if it's the lower temp range or the malt bill but the yeast seem to want to get lazy on those last few points. With a little encouragement they finished the beer perfectly and couldn't be happier.

Hmmm - this thread is making me wonder if something hasn't changed with WLP007?

Previously everyone has reported extraordinary attenuation (well over 80%) with this yeast. I just brewed three different batches with WLP007 and all of them were under attunuated - in the range of 68% if I remember right, and these were all with ferments done at 70F, which is fairly high for this yeast, and plenty of yeast pitched. The flavor is good, though a touch sweet, but I was disappointed that it didn't dry out my big IPA and pumpkin beers more.

007 floccs like crazy. I usually rouse the yeast every few days towards the end of ferment.

MNDan said:

Hmmm - this thread is making me wonder if something hasn't changed with WLP007?

Previously everyone has reported extraordinary attenuation (well over 80%) with this yeast. I just brewed three different batches with WLP007 and all of them were under attunuated - in the range of 68% if I remember right, and these were all with ferments done at 70F, which is fairly high for this yeast, and plenty of yeast pitched. The flavor is good, though a touch sweet, but I was disappointed that it didn't dry out my big IPA and pumpkin beers more.

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I was thinking the same...I've used this yeast for some time and never in countered problems after doing starters and plenty of oxygen....now I have had the last couple of batches finish less then 75%...which is fine but unusual for this strain...its my go to yeast for most styles...but lately I've been sorta bummed...

I've done 3 batches with this yeast in the past year and a half. All were mashed between 146ºF and 152ºF, pitched at .75 million cells/mL/ºP and oxygenated to 12-14ppm. One was a barley wine that I re-oxygenated after 8 hours another 5ppm. All three had at least 4% simple sugar in the recipe. I've never got it to go past 72% attenuation. Next time I'm blending in some American Ale yeast with the initial pitch to get more attenuation. I like the flavor the yeast makes but not the residual sweetness with the low attenuation.

If you're having problems with attenuation, I'd turn my focus to your process...not to White Labs quality control...

Same thing has happened with Wyeast's version. I'm sure some tweaking with pitching rates, oxygen and rousing would help. I even tried less calcium (50ppm vs. 100ppm) this time in the hopes that it wouldn't flocculate early. I'm not home all the time to babysit and rouse yeast though. I've had much better results with 002. Believe me, I focus on my process. A yeast that flocculates before it's finished is a yeast I don't want to use.

I've had this same problem with 007 twice now, once in a brown ale and once in a porter. Both were mashed ~154-152 and had attenuations under 70%. That's with a 2L stater on a stir plate, and 02 bubbled for 1 minute in wort. Both fermented at 65F and let rise to 68 over the course of fermentation.

This is extremely frustrating because I've used this yeast before and had great results (78% attenuation). It seems like a roll of the dice every time you use this strain!

I just wanted to report on my experience with this strain. About 6 months ago I brewed an IPA that reached 80% attenuation with wlp007. I did a single infusion mash at 149 F for 75 mins and a mash out at 168 F. The fermentation temp schedule was 65 F for 2 days, 68 for another 2 and then 70 once most signs of fermentation have slowed down.

My main problem with this yeast strain is that it works so fast that I'm tempted to pull it out of the fermentor a lot earlier than with other strains that I've used lol. I've only used it three times but on all three occasions it reached near the high end of their attenuation range. I don't oxygenate with a diffusion stone or anything like that, just try to whip as much air in as possible while I'm cooling the wort.

I've had issues with both wlp007 and wlp002 having low attenuation. Since both yeast are high floculaters, I figured it happened when the yeast were slowing down and my mini fridge kicked on... and the yeast flocked out.

I assumed that people that fermented in swamp coolers or at ambient room temperature weren't having as the low attenuation problems I'm seeing.

All that could just be in my head. I made starters according to yeast calc and oxygenated with pure O2 with a flow meter. I never have this issue with wlp001 or US-05.

W

bulldawgbrewer said:

I've had this same problem with 007 twice now, once in a brown ale and once in a porter. Both were mashed ~154-152 and had attenuations under 70%. That's with a 2L stater on a stir plate, and 02 bubbled for 1 minute in wort. Both fermented at 65F and let rise to 68 over the course of fermentation.

This is extremely frustrating because I've used this yeast before and had great results (78% attenuation). It seems like a roll of the dice every time you use this strain!

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Ok so I gave this strain another shot in the Union Jack IPA clone. Mashed at 148F, grain bill had hardly any crystal or dextrin malt, and 8% of it was simple sugar to ensure good attenuation. This time the yeast kicked ass. 1.073 down to 1.011. I used the same process for the starter and fermentation temps as before. The only thing I did differently was I swirled the carboy every day from day 4 on to day 7 to get the yeast back up in suspension. Seemed to work great.

I've struggling as others are with WLP007 flocculating quickly and under attenuating. In my case, it is with big IPAs (~1.090+) and with large starters (5L) and lots of O2. I ferment in a fermentation chamber (temp. controlled freezer) from 65-70 over the course of the fermentation. I've had excellent success with other strains WRT my process.

Someone mentioned the possibility of early flocculation being triggered with this strain by the freezer/fridge coming on. I'm wondering if others would comment whether their challenges may or may not be related to the mode of temperature control during fermentation?

Jim

From data I logged in my 7cf fermenting chamber/temp controlled freezer, the beer temp doesn't fluctuate very much at all.

I control by air temp and the beer temp just makes a gentle downward or upward slope to temp control setting. At least in my setup, the beer appears to have too much thermal mass for its temp to respond directly to the air temp swings as the freezer cycles on and off.

In my ferm chamber, I have the probe taped to the side of the carboy. When the temp hits the set point plus the temp delta, the fridge cools back down to the set point. I use a 1F delta and my carboy usually cools in about 10 min at the peak of fermentation and slightly faster as fermentation slows.

I'm using a thermowell in my case and a ranco controller. I have the differential temperature set to one degree, meaning if the actual temperature deviates more than one degree the freezer comes on. The freezer is about a 8 cubic foot freezer. I've noticed that when it comes on sometimes, even after the set temperature is reached and the freezer goes off, the temperature of the fermentation continues to drop a degree or two. There seems to be a great deal of cooling capacity after the freezer goes off. I'm wondering if WLP007 is particularly sensitive to this overshoot with its high floculation characteristic.

Jim

I doubt it. It just drops like a rock regardless. FWIW, my last use of 007 hit ~80% without any special measures other than using a starter (which probably isn't really a special measure for 1.06x).

Been a long time user of Chico strains, but looking to try out other strains that produce a tad bit more acid.

Just did my first 10 gallon split batch with WLP0002 and WLP007. The WLP002 finished at 73% and the WLP007 finished at 71%, which was very interesting to me since I assumed the "dry" ale would finish lower.

I got the acid production I was looking for however, so it's probably just mashing lower/longer to get a more fermentable wort (goal being a drier beer) - pending that I like the finished beer!

95% 2 row
5% carapils
Mashed at 153F for 60min
OG 51, post boil pH 5.25
Fermented at 66F
FG WLP002 1.014, pH 4.01
FG WLP007 1.015, pH 4.10

Regards,
Justin