DME/LME comparison

Hola, y'all:

I'm not yet doing All-Grain brewing, and only now beginning to explore recipes *other than* the pre-made kits sold at my local home brew supply store.

Reading some of the recipes here, I see most extract recipes call for dry malt extract, and few (if any) call for liquid malt extract. Any particular reason WHY this is the case?

Is there any difference between the two (other than, of course, one being dry and the other being... well, liquid)?

If a given recipe calls for XX pounds of DME, is there a conversion I can do to LME? Say, 1 pound LME = X pounds DME?

Or am I just over-thinking this?

Thanks, everyone.

-- Jeff

Converting one-pound grain/dme/lme

1# grain = 0.75# LME = 0.6# DME
1# DME = 1.25# LME = 1.67# grain
1# LME = 0.8# DME = 1.33# grain

Dry is known to affect the color more than liquid. Also, some people don't have access to fresh LME and prefer the dry because it keeps better than the cans of LME.

You can definitely substitute one for the other.

Also, consider a late addition of LME to achieve a lighter color and use fewer hops.

I have access to fresh LME, so the only reason I would use dry is if I'm really trying to keep the beer light in color

I always use DME, I just think its way easier to work with than the syrup. I always spill or burn the liquid. Dry just floats on top of the water, and all the clumps melt out by the time I hit a boil.

Freshness is key too, I don't ike the bite you get from old lme

no_borders said:

Freshness is key too, I don't ike the bite you get from old lme

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Man, I feel terrible for everyone that gets these bad batches of LME. I must be really lucky, or my LHBS is on point. Never had a nasty twang or bad aftertaste or anything from my LME.

Getzinator said:

Man, I feel terrible for everyone that gets these bad batches of LME. I must be really lucky, or my LHBS is on point. Never had a nasty twang or bad aftertaste or anything from my LME.

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My LHBS must be rockstars too. I have never had any issues with their LME and actually prefer it over DME. Makes a lot less mess and easier to manage for me personally.

I like to get bulk DME too, so I can brew whenever i feel like it. Its easier to weigh out than LME so IMO its easier to control the OG. Plus, having some DME kickin around is always good for starters and such

Since were talking extracts....does LME make more abv than DME or are they equal???
And if you use both in the same recipe is it high proof? Lets say 3.3 lbs of LME and 2 lbs of DME (standard Ale) and some hops of course -- will it be 7 or 8%????

heeler said:

Since were talking extracts....does LME make more abv than DME or are they equal???
And if you use both in the same recipe is it high proof? Lets say 3.3 lbs of LME and 2 lbs of DME (standard Ale) and some hops of course -- will it be 7 or 8%????

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Using the recipe above that calls for 3.3lbs of LME and 2lbs of DME the ABV will be the same if you convert the liquid/dry extract to what you want. So if you only want to use DME, you'd convert the 3.3lbs of LME per the ratio in the post above. So you'd take (3.3lbs LME x 0.8 conversion factor) = 2.64lbs DME. So then your recipe would use 4.64 lbs DME and zero LME and be the same ABV.

You could reverse this, using the chart below to convert DME to LME. So (2lbs DME x 1.25 conversion factor) = 2.5lbs LME. In this case your recipe would have 5.8lbs LME and zero DME and you'd have the same ABV.

If you want higher ABV, you'd just use more...

If you're wondering why a recipe would call for both, there are a few reasons. With the example you gave, the recipe seems to assume the only LME available to you is canned. Those cans are almost always 3.3lbs. If you bought two, it would be too much extract, so using some DME, which is sold by the pound, you can get the right amount of extract without overbuying. The other reason a recipe might call of DME is to keep a lighter color. LME always turns out darker than DME. In general, I would think most buyers with access to fresh LME sold by the pound would use 5.8lbs LME and no DME in the recipe you mention.

progmac...thanks for that...maybe thats why the recipe calls for both(lighter color). Its not my recipe, its one that I'm trying of uniondr's (Sherries Summer Shandy) it just seems really easy and simple so I'm trying to build my confidence in brewing and who does'nt like Linny's Summer Shandy. N E way the abv question...if the recipe called for all LME would that make higher abv and is the DME just there for flavor??? I use DME in starters but never thought about the proof of a starter. You said if you want more abv just add more ..... LME or DME or are they equal???
Thanks in advance.

heeler said:

progmac...thanks for that...maybe thats why the recipe calls for both(lighter color). Its not my recipe, its one that I'm trying of uniondr's (Sherries Summer Shandy) it just seems really easy and simple so I'm trying to build my confidence in brewing and who does'nt like Linny's Summer Shandy. N E way the abv question...if the recipe called for all LME would that make higher abv and is the DME just there for flavor??? I use DME in starters but never thought about the proof of a starter. You said if you want more abv just add more ..... LME or DME or are they equal???
Thanks in advance.

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LME and DME serve the exact same purpose, they are the foundation of your beer and contribute almost all of the fermentable sugars which lead to alcohol.

the discussion in this thread is about how to substitute one for the other...for example maybe you only want to use LME or only want to use DME because of what your local brew shop stocks. but you can't just take a pound of LME and substitute it for a pound of DME. you have to use the conversion factors above, which show that a pound of DME is the same as 1.25 pounds LME, etc. the reason is because DME has no water weight, so you use less to achieve the same ABV as you would with LME.

if you're wanting to increase ABV, you need to increase fermentable sugars. you can do this by adding either DME or LME, whatever you have on hand. a pound of DME will give you more fermentable sugars and more alcohol than a pound of LME. That is why if a recipe calls for one pound DME, you'd sub it not with one pound LME but with 1.25 pounds LME.

If you're looking at a recipe and want it to be higher alcohol, you have to be a little careful because a recipe is typically pretty balanced and things might get screwy if you just jack up the amount of extract. but within reason, you should be okay. for example, if you throw in an extra pound of extract (liquid or dry) you'll get higher ABV without any huge issues. you'd get more alcohol with the pound of dry versus the pound of liquid for the reasons mentioned above.

You can also add half to one pound of ordinary table sugar or honey or syrup or lollipops or anything with sugar to increase the ABV. but this will change the beer (although not too drastically if you are adding less than a pound), so make sure you know what you're trying to do before changing a recipe.

OP - other things to consider asside from freshness and color is cost and type.

You lhbs or i(nternet)hbs might have have a particular malt type (wheat/dark/amber, etc) in DME or LME but not both. Cost is often different between the 2. It used to be that DME was more $$ than LME - makes sense since DME is a drying process after they make LME. But on a start OG basis, I've not noticed much difference between the 2 of late.

In fact in some ihbs kits if you orderd DME it was less $$ than LME. Interestingly some of their older recipes had more $$ for DME than LME. Personally since I can't brew as regular as I'd like, I get DME knowing that it keeps better. But if you are buying and brewing in 1 to 2 weeks there is no spoilage advantage to either.

for me, LME is A LOT cheaper. LHBS has one pound of DME for $5.50 or one pound of LME for $2.40. A no brainer