Rye Cascadian Dark

I think I will brew this one up. But before I do, any comments, thoughts, additions or subtractions?

[size=+2]Desert Fish - Heart of Dankness RCDA[/size]
[size=+1]23-A Specialty Beer[/size]
Author: Thomas C. Hart



Size: 22.0 gal
Efficiency: 76.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 256.76 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.077 (1.026 - 1.120)
|================#===============|
Terminal Gravity: 1.019 (0.995 - 1.035)
|=================#==============|
Color: 32.02 (1.0 - 50.0)
|==================#=============|
Alcohol: 7.59% (2.5% - 14.5%)
|==============#=================|
Bitterness: 79.6 (0.0 - 100.0)
|====================#===========|

[size=+1]Ingredients:[/size]
25.0 lb Golden Promise Pale
11.0 lb Pale Ale Malt
15.0 lb Rye Malt
4.0 lb Crystal Malt 40°L
2.0 lb Melanoidin Malt
2.0 lb Pale Chocolate
1.0 lb Roast Barley
4.0 lb Carafa Special® TYPE II
100.0 g Tomahawk (15.3%) - added first wort, boiled 90.0 min
40.0 g Centennial (10.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
40.0 g Tomahawk (15.3%) - added during boil, boiled 30.0 min
35.0 g Centennial (10.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30.0 min
50.0 g Tomahawk (15.3%) - added during boil, boiled 1.0 min
3.0 ea White Labs WLP001 California Ale

[size=+1]Schedule:[/size]
Ambient Air: 70.0 °F
Source Water: 60.0 °F
Elevation: 1 mi

00:03:00 Mash In - Liquor: 22.0 gal; Strike: 161.68 °F; Target: 148 °F
00:43:00 Saccrification - Rest: 40.0 min; Final: 148.0 °F
01:28:00 fly sparge - Sparge #1: 11.75 gal sparge @ 168.0 °F, 25.44 gal collected, 45 min; Total Runoff: 25.96 gal

[size=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.1[/size]

Fresh Tomahawk is a great bittering hop.
Being a fan of the CDA, I look forward to your results.

Esentially a Dark IPA, right? You have plenty of bitterness, but it seems like you could really up the late boil addition. As it is I would just call it a American Rye Brown.

I have the First Wort hopping because I find it contributes a nice hop character in addition to the bitterness it contributes. That with the 30 minute and 1 minute hops should give it a good hop character that still lets the rye's peppery character show in the flavor. I am certain there will be enough hop flavor for what I am after.

The hop schedule is very similar to Denny Conn's Rye IPA recipe and I believe it is why his recipe works as well as it does.

I think your assessment of this as an American Rye Brown is a good one and an example of the foggy lines between styles. One difference between the American Brown and Cascadian Dark is the the level of bitterness. This recipe (@80 IBUs) has twice the bitterness of an American Brown (20-40 IBUs).

My bigger concern in designing this recipe is getting the rye character to show with everything else that is going on in this brew.

Roast barley doesn't work well for highly hopped beers. For color, de-bittered malt is the best idea. Also, the roast barley will tend to mask the rye.

Brewpastor said:

The hop schedule is very similar to Denny Conn's Rye IPA recipe and I believe it is why his recipe works as well as it does.

Click to expand...

The big difference is that his recipe calls for dry hops.

david_42 said:

Roast barley doesn't work well for highly hopped beers.

Click to expand...

I'd debate the Roasted Barley comment. I use RB in my CDA and think it goes really well. Not a lot mind you, and I put it in the mash for the last 15mins, but I like the contrast. To me that's what CDA's are all about. It's more than just a color.

Oldsock said:

The big difference is that his recipe calls for dry hops.

Click to expand...

Yes, he uses an ounce of Columbus for dry hopping in his 5 gallon recipe. I've thought about dry hopping and have not yet settled on this one.

My normal IPA recipe is dry hopped with three different hops at 1.25 ounces per type. It is a hopping schedule I stole from Ben Miller and his IPA recipe from last year's GABF Pro-Am.

Kilted Brewer said:

I'd debate the Roasted Barley comment. I use RB in my CDA and think it goes really well. Not a lot mind you, and I put it in the mash for the last 15mins, but I like the contrast. To me that's what CDA's are all about. It's more than just a color.

Click to expand...

I agree. I definitely have it in my RIS, which tend to be on the hoppy side, but as in all things, there is lots of room for personal preference.

Roasted barely is fine with hops in my opinion. Worked fine in my american stout.

I would suggest adding a dry hop of some kind, but either way sounds delicious.

PS- I like that it has dark tasting malts and not just coloring!

I agree with the idea that grain simply for color is wasted grain. But of course there are many different tones of flavor from the various different roasted grains and one should choose them with intent. Take the difference between stout and porter.

It will be interesting to see how the CDA style ends up being defined by the BJCP.

I think just a wee bit of roasted barley is nice, but using a de-husked black malt for the majority of the color/roast flavor is called for.

The collaboration brew for last year's Eugene BrewFest in Oregon was a Belgian Yeast Rye CDA. Maui Brewing and Southern Oregon Brewing are still making their versions and selling them on draft.

Thanks for the information on Southern Oregon Brewing's beer. I called them up and to see what they had to say and they were great. The brewer I talked with thought it was a good idea to keep the hops back in the latter additions to show the rye, but thought a bit would not be a problems. He also thought I should step back on the Centennials so the beer doesn't get too piney. His bigger concern related to the rye was the roasted grains, although he felt that with the percentage I plan to use it shouldn't be a concern. He likes roast in his CDAs and rye in his IPAs. The Belgian Rye CDA they produced used much less rye because they wanted to show off their yeast.

So I have made some adjustments to my recipe which I am including below:

[size=+2]Desert Fish - Heart of Dankness RCDA[/size]
[size=+1]23-A Specialty Beer[/size]
Author: Thomas C. Hart



Size: 22.0 gal
Efficiency: 76.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 267.78 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.080 (1.026 - 1.120)
|=================#==============|
Terminal Gravity: 1.020 (0.995 - 1.035)
|=================#==============|
Color: 34.5 (1.0 - 50.0)
|==================#=============|
Alcohol: 7.92% (2.5% - 14.5%)
|===============#================|
Bitterness: 89.4 (0.0 - 100.0)
|======================#=========|

[size=+1]Ingredients:[/size]
25.0 lb Golden Promise Pale
13.0 lb Pale Ale Malt
15.0 lb Rye Malt
4.0 lb Crystal Malt 40°L
2.0 lb Melanoidin Malt
1.0 lb Pale Chocolate
1.0 lb Roast Barley
6.0 lb Carafa Special® TYPE II
100.0 g Tomahawk (15.3%) - added first wort, boiled 90.0 min
35.0 g Tomahawk (15.3%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
40.0 g Tomahawk (15.3%) - added during boil, boiled 30.0 min
40.0 g Centennial (10.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30.0 min
40.0 g Centennial (10.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10.0 min
40.0 g Tomahawk (15.3%) - added during boil, boiled 1.0 min
3.0 ea White Labs WLP001 California Ale

[size=+1]Schedule:[/size]
Ambient Air: 70.0 °F
Source Water: 60.0 °F
Elevation: 1 mi

00:03:00 Mash In - Liquor: 23.03 gal; Strike: 161.68 °F; Target: 148 °F
00:43:00 Saccrification - Rest: 40.0 min; Final: 148.0 °F
01:28:00 fly sparge - Sparge #1: 12.3 gal sparge @ 168.0 °F, 25.44 gal collected, 45 min; Total Runoff: 25.96 gal

[size=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.1[/size]

can you please help me make this into an extract recipe, 2.5 gallon boil? i think i could figure it out on beer calculus, but i want to make sure that the hop utilization is correct, and that is still something im having trouble with...

this sounds like the perfect beer.