worried about cider tried to go plain jane.

Ok so Ive got a couple carboys started and they are progressing nicely. Dec 11 th. They've got a lot of fermentables around 15% abv. Then around hristmas I filled a brew bucket up with cider added nottingham and nothing else as I wanted to try something that's a lil more easy on the liver. After all this time I said o.k. let's rack as I haven't seen a bubble in a couple weeks. First there was a film on top of the cider and second this stuff is VERY CLOUDY. there was significant lees in the bottom and smells nice fruity and can tell there's alcohol. What's up with this. Gonna try to post a pic the second two are the cider mead with dark brown sugar and honey so I expect them to be darker but this stuff is like glow in the dark! Is this normal for unadulterated cider?

O.k. It may be possible that I had my first stuck.ferment. bc it is now.starting to bubble a little. Like one per minute. Ferment temp is on the cool side 64° so who knows. I didn't like the brew bucket for primary. Just hate to see a fermentation vessel empty

Is this normal for cider to be this color? I have always added brown sugar as a fermentable? And what the heck could the clear film on top of the cider have been? I am never going to use buckets to brew cider in aagain. And I am not using those inverted thimble airlocks anymore. Or the orange over the top things the airlcks go in. Stoppers, traditonal airlocks. And carboys from now on.

I guess a couple of questions we may as well get out of the way is what was the OG and FG? Picture of the film? I suspect that not much can be done unless we have that info.

Also was there an issue other than the film? I think the color looks ok in that picture. How does it taste?

it tastes sour but not much different than any raw cider. Whenever I take the gravity measure I never remember the actual value but always remember that it correlated to 6% ABV on the hygro. actually hold on I will go get the exact numbers and FG right now......................... o.k. the initial corresponded to about 5-6 % abv and this is now at 1.002 sg. very close to the 1.0000 mark.taste is a lil sour dillute and yeasty but that how green cider tastes to me anyway... not a fan of chablis more of a reisling guy. I even just took a swill of cider vinegar for comparative purposes. the bouquet is very nice and fruity. I'm looking for a session drink whereas all my other ciders have belonged more in the what happened last night shelf. also I used nottingham whereas I have always used red star champagne in the past.

Did you use any sort of Sulphite/Campden to sterilize your juice must before fermentation? If not... well... you don't have enough alcohol to kill the wild nasties.... you may have picked up an infection of some sort.

My own musings..... in order of likelihood...

1st... Malo-lactic fermentation... If you didn't use Sulphite (And frequently even when you did...) and you are fermenting "indoors"... you may have run a wild malo-lactic fermentation... Nothing to worry about here, except it takes a while... The key indicator here is that the "Sour Green Apple Candy" taste gradually goes away. During this time, it can taste and smell different with scents ranging from "Buttery popcorn" to kinda "Weird" beerish and sour for a while... If all goes well and you get a good one, it settles down into a nice appley scented chardonnay sort of flavor that's not nearly as bitter.... If you get a bad one - it will taste like Sauerkraut... It will stay cloudy for a *long* time, but will eventually fall clear just fine when the malo-lactic is done... Since this has started, you really need to let it do it's thing....

2nd.... Did you add any pectic enzyme? Apples are notoriously high in pectin... and pectin = pectin haze.... Pectin haze doesn't usually look like yellow/orange mud... more like just clear but hazy....

I suppose the easiest thing to do is to just let it be and it will finish up when it's finished.... Unfortunately, that could be ~June....

If you absolutely gotta fool with it.... Cold crash it out in a cold garage then bottle and pasteurize it... Put it somewhere it won't go much below 25F - like up against an outside wall..... De-gas it good and it will usually fall clear pretty quickly... Pasteurization will kill wild beasties.... Let it sit a few weeks and start drinking it.... It will taste kinda raw... and since it's so young, it will be a lot better if you back-sweeten it to hide the "Young" flavors....

Thanks

Thank you... I do believe the malo-lactic is what I have going on. Two things worth noting. 1- I had alot of air space on this ferment as the primary was done in a brew bucket. It has since been racked into a carboy (pictured) .
2- when I racked I made sure to rack around (under) the film.

Malolactic is anaerobic - so lots of airspace in an open top bucket actually slows it down.... Most likely it came in with the apples/juice... The other possibility is that it's in your brew bucket from previous beer ferments....

Thanks

O.k. figured let's take this to what I wanted in the first place.... added a cup of honey, a cup of dark brown sugar, 2 tbs vanilla extract and four cups dextrose and three cups espresso. Wanted a dark porter sort of twist on it. Figure why not. Not in any huge hurry. Oh yeah I also repitched some red star champagne.

Why did you repitch? There is really not that much sugar left to be eaten up?

Well this just was racked so its off the inital lees andyhen I just added all those fermentables so I figured I would add a little fermentables.

It is ok that you repitched - but was most likely unecessary. When you racked you pulled some suspended yeast along with the rest. However - I would not sweat it, what is don't is done. You might want to leave it to bulk age (under airlock) a bit longer (when the ferment subsides). I imagine you will have some extra yeasty odors that will need to vent off due to the double pitch. No worries, it will age out. Don't bottle if the cider still smells yeasty.

Just curious, was the juice from fresh apples? If it was from store bought AJ, then malolactic is unlikely. If fresh pressed, that is definitely likely. All my ciders this year had malo ferments except one or two. I sulphited at the start, but didn't at the first reracking/top off. Malo is a good thing, IMO.

Also - get rid of any head space (top off). This is important in protecting your cider for the long haul.

Interesting additions to the cider - do let us know how they turn out.

One other thing - I wouldn't (personally) use pectic enzyme. I have always had my ciders clear naturally and never needed it. They look cloudy now, but since you did your first racking the ciders will likely clear out 3-4 weeks after, though you added fermentables, so perhaps a bit longer.

It either case, you likley won't be drinking the cider until 3 months from start of ferment - by then it should be clear unless you are experiencin a malo haze or you heated the juice.

Thanks cm I will.def post about.the profile when done. I am also thinking about the temp in my basement. Which could be around 58° need to get a thermo on these carboys. All three ofthese ferments went different than my fall cider. Took longer think carts... needed more yeast nutrient than my fall ciders. The one in ? In this thread was originally pitched with nottingham. Was thinking about moving somewhere with a temp in the mid 60's. And yes ontario orchards in oswego, ny fresh pressed is $2 a gallon and u.v. sterilized. Good stuff.

You've got a TON of headspace! That allows oxygen and other things to interact with the cider. It has to be topped up, within an inch or two of the bung, or use a much smaller carboy. When there is headspace, I've seen oxidation, mold, and other infections in ciders/meads/wines.

Actually if you look at the pic its the carboy on the left that is in quesion. The two on the right that are darker are at about 14% abc and are done just waiting for them to clear. I've got no worries for them. After I added the additions to the left one there is about a quarter inch of head space in the neck of the carboy.

becon776 said:

Actually if you look at the pic its the carboy on the left that is in quesion. The two on the right that are darker are at about 14% abc and are done just waiting for them to clear. I've got no worries for them. After I added the additions to the left one there is about a quarter inch of head space in the neck of the carboy.

Click to expand...

Well, I'm concerned about the headspace anyway, even if you're not! That's a reason for concern. But if you like oxidized cider/mead, that's ok with me. I would be far more concerned about them than the fermenting one. The one on the left looks fine.

Point taken... I totally messed up the one cyser anyway on the right. I totally underestimated the crazy strentgth ginger would have on the flavor profile and forgot my organic chemistry that ethanol is used for chemical extractions. I am gonna do what I can and be patient with the left one. That is weaker and a cider not a high octane cider. I need to get a couple 6 gallon carboys. Use camden tabs next time this whole run has been a significant learning experience. The first ten gall I brewed came offf easy easy. Beginners luck but then I was just using white sugar LOTS! and cider.