Should I feel guilty buying online and not local?

I have this internal struggle. I want to support my local home brew store but they just can't or don't compete with the price I can find online for most things. If I could justify it by "getting knowledge and training" I would spend the extra 20%. The fact is that with the internet any training I need is at my finger tips. Does anyone have considerations why I should buy locally? Thanks!

Nope. If the prices put the LHBS to shame then I don't give it a second thought.

20% seems steep. Go in and talk to the owner, worth a shot at least. I am fortunate to have a great local shop that other then always being out of malted wheat has everything I ever need at great prices, no waiting for ups, no shipping charges, and most important no wondering if the liquid yeast is still good after transportation.

Worst thing that could happen is they say no, then you can buy online without a second thought

I buy all my hops online in bulk because it's way cheaper, but I buy grain and yeast locally because shipping almost always makes buying online at least a few dollars more. I don't buy grain in bulk yet because I don't have a mill, so I haven't really priced full sacks, but my LHBS offers a discount card to buy a sack of 2 row for a discount, but only pick up as much as you need every time you go in.

I buy hops online in bulk for the savings, and I'd buy sacks of grain online but nobody offers free shipping, so I might as well pick that up from the LHBS.

Beyond that, I buy most of my specialty grain & yeast from the LHBS. If I know I'm going to have a big enough order to stock up a bunch of stuff from morebeer, I'll do that, because the savings are worth it, but if it's merely for specialty grain & yeast, it's usually not expensive enough to worry about the savings online.

That said, I like the idea of supporting my local, because you never know when you'll have that emergency ***oh crap my yeast isn't viable!*** moment and realize you don't have a backup plan. The freedom to run out to the store within 24 hrs and get what you need is valuable. But that doesn't stop my from buying online when the situation is right to do so.

Check and see if the LHBS supports a local club. Mine gives a 10% discount to members of the local brew club. I buy some stuff on line but milled grain is usually cheaper there.

I shop locally when I need to but I do buy mostly online. I usually only buy one or two bulk orders per year and spend around $100-150 per year in ingredients (I just don't have time to brew or drink that much). On a $60 order online, even with the cost of shipping, I still get a better deal. The most local shop is now fairly close to online prices so any smaller volume needs are bought online. Sometimes I go in the shop and there's 3-4 people on the clock but just sitting at the counter talking. That's probably some overhead that could be cut.

I appreciate the response. I guess it depends on convenience and cost mixed with a touch of loyalty. I really don't know enough about brewing to compare all the different variables. I compared a simple one like the plastic carboy. Morebeer was less then 30.00 while this place was about 37.00. I just guessed that was going to be the trend in general. It is true shipping adds to the cost but at certain levels that become irrelevant if you spend enough. Anyway thanks! Still looking for more input.

Buy locally because when your LHBS goes out of business, the owner might go on a local crime spree!

My local was 20 miles away. I had a bad buying session from him once, so my lhbs turned into 40 miles away. 20 mile closed his doors, and while 40 mile is super competitive on pricing and really nice, I can't justify the price in gas vs flat rate shipping. Their also hasn't been once where I'll go in with my recipe and not come out with a substitution. Online has offered me a larger in-stock selection.

Buy where you get the best price. I always buy plenty when I buy online so I usually have anything I need to brew just about any recipe I want at a moments notice. If you stay ahead, then you won't have the "oh crap, I need x right now!" Problem.

Lhbs is nice to have around, but i don't use it much.

I try to buy as much as I can local (in all things) when I can.
Pros -
*Money stays in the area
*In general, I find that it is about the same when you throw in shipping
*Nice to have the store there for emergency situation, and if no one buys there, it will go away
*Grain IS cheaper for me local - shipping kills even the best grain prices ( I can get sacks for same or lower than NBrewer prices, plus no shipping) That savings helps cancel out anything else that might be somewhat higher.
*Our club does get a 10% discount too.
*The owner will take special orders for me and others - Just let him know a week or so in advance what kinds of bulk grain, or certain yeasts I want, and he will put them in as part of his order.

I also do buy some of my hops on line in bulk. But again, I am pretty sure if I asked, the owner would give me cheap bulk prices on a bunch of half pound or pound bags of hops if I told him in advance what I wanted.
If the service is good and the math is close, I would try to stay local. For 90% of my brewing time I have not had a LHBS. We do now, and it is really nice that it is there. I want to see it succeed.


Now, if there was a quality issue (old yeast), no desire to work with customer on getting things in you need, TERRIBLE prices, bad service, things like that - I would not hesitate to order on line.

i buy malt and yeast locally. My lhbs is very competitive and only 30 min away. rahr malt 5 lb is 7.05 compared to 6.10 i I've seen online. when i factor in shipping and convenience it just makes sense for me to go to him considering i only buy 10 to 12 lbs at a time. hops i by in bulk online

I do a combo of online and local purchases for all the reasons stated previously. But the real reason I buy locally is that it is one more opportunity to talk beer with someone who knows what they are talking about.

I always try and buy at my LHBS. not only do they have everything I need & some things I didn't even know I needed (!) but their expertise has been invaluable in helping me become successful as a brewer.
The shop owner will even direct me to buy some items online when he knows he cannot come close to the pricing.
Ultimately, if you don't support your LHBS he/she might not be there when you need yeast, grain, etc. for that last minute brewing opportunity or emergency.

I do large purchases online and buy liquid yeast and small miscellaneous items from the LHBS.

LME and hops are much cheaper online and there is a better selection.

I buy most of my stuff at he LHBS near me. He has a good selection, fresh product and prices are decent. Not great but not bad either. I do buy some hops in bulk online because that is the one area that I can save a lot.

I buy from him mostly because I want him to stay in business. Having a LHBS nearby can be a great savior of a brew day. I recently started a brew and after the boil started I realized that I was missing something I needed. I had my wife watch the boil with instruction of when to drop the different hops. I ran over,grabbed what I needed and was back before the boil was over. Saved brew day.

That is why I want him to stay in business.

I have one LHBS near my home and one near work. The one near work has hops below $2.00. The AA% tends to run low. They also have specialty grains priced competetively. The other place has extract at $13/3 lbs and 2-row for 10.60/10 lb. With these prices, I don't order online unless someone else already is.

CBR250 said:

I appreciate the response. I guess it depends on convenience and cost mixed with a touch of loyalty. I really don't know enough about brewing to compare all the different variables. I compared a simple one like the plastic carboy. Morebeer was less then 30.00 while this place was about 37.00. I just guessed that was going to be the trend in general. It is true shipping adds to the cost but at certain levels that become irrelevant if you spend enough. Anyway thanks! Still looking for more input.

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I should mention that most of my equipment purchases take place online, other than small odds and ends. I find there's a lot more markup on equipment in local stores than you can find online.

I have two lhbs that are 20 minutes away from my home.
One lhbs is rubbish. It has a limited selection for beer and the customer service and housekeeping leaves a lot to be desired. That and when they don't match their online prices I have never gone back and that is fine by me.

The other lhbs is my go to shop. They have a wonderful store that is laid out well and have ample selection for either wine or beer. The customer service is friendly and easy to talk to and the store is very clean and presentable. However they are a bit pricier on grains/yeast/hops (.30 to $2) than Northern Brewer (1 hour drive from my house) and they don't carry the more "exotic" grains/hops/yeast. (example simpson golden oats, rahr white wheat malt, Wyeast 1968, styrian goldings etc).

I don't feel bad at all going to Northern Brewer and buying bulk hops and speciality grains that my lhbs doesn't carry. But in consideration I usually spend about $30-$50 a month at my lhbs and about $100 at Northern Brewer twice a year.

Do what you have to brew quality beer that you enjoy drinking and sharing.
Support your lhbs if they provide you a service you find valuable; convenience, price, knowledge, customer service, etc.

Redbeard5289

I am a little jealous of you guys with a knowledgeable lhbs...I have three near me and all are run buy people that really don't know much about brewing. One of the stores is very friendly, and if i end up visiting a store, its that one. Otherwise, if there is something i don't know about brewing, I just ask the folks on this board.

My LHBS is expensive, hard to park and open bankers hours. the 20% price increase the OP mentioned is at least what I see. Even with paying shipping its cheaper to buy online, also all the big online retailers have better selection and customer service.
Its just not worth it to walk into the LHBS.

There's a LHBS very close to me, but they're extremely expensive (they dont discount anything, hops are literally twice as much as anywhere else, etc) and service isnt really that good. There is another LHBS that's a bit more of a drive, but I try to go there for everything I can, and as long as i'm spending $25+ its cheaper than shipping, even considering gas being spent. The people who work there are friendly, know what they're talking about, and actually care about brewing (even the little thing of them asking "So what are you brewing?"). I go there for all of my recipes, with the exception of bulk hop buys in the Fall, though they still do have pretty decent prices on hops compared to online stores, just not compared to buying from the farm

I am completely for supporting local businesses, but they have to meet me half way as well. I'm fine paying a little more for convenience to buy local, but i'm not made of money and i'm not fine with paying twice as much for the same item. That said, I drive a bit farther and go to the good NQALBSLHBS (Not Quite As Local But Still Local Home Brew Store)!

I guess I should consider myself lucky - my closest LHBS is Northern Brewer. They've been nothing but friendly and helpful every time I've been in, and considering how new I am to this hobby I've had my share of questions. I know there are a couple of other shops in the area, but I just haven't seen a need to go elsewhere.

I buy most stuff at LHBS - especially specialty grains and yeast. The one thing that annoys the crap out of me is extremely necessary items are just never in stock. There are probably 150 oetiker clamps for 5/16" gas line, but the oetiker clamps for 3/16" beer line are just never there. There's even a tray with the label on them, but it's perpetually empty.

You should feel guilty only if you went to your LHBS(s)and used the owners time and then purchased the same stuff on-line.

It's like going to Best Buy and HH Greg and getting lots of recommendations,,, then going home a buying it cheapers... you used their time so you should have bought it from one of the places that provided you with a Service,, they deserve it...

+1 on this reply!

When I first started homebrewing, I read up on these forums. The culture from my perception was that the LHBS had more to offer than online vendors. Between advice and the joy of talking shop I was a big believer. Until I went to my LHBS. The first time was great, and every trip after that completely sucked. They forgot to add hops to the kits I bought, once the yeast. Never very helpful, always short and brash. I was fed up, and between finding BrewingTV and more research I started ordering through northern brewer. Fast forward a year. Another shop opened up and it's everything the previous shop wasn't. I love it, I love going in there I love chatting with them and I love supporting them. The only issue is it's an hour each way on the subway. Not the easiest thing. Now LHBS #1 is offering online ordering and decent shipping. I really had a bad time with them but knowing that the money stays local makes it hard. Every time I go out to my new LHBS I think about how much my time is worth and why it's worth it. But it's getting harder…

I go and buy from my LHBS, for the most part the prices are not much higher and take shipping cost out they are in the ballpark. Some items they can't match like the new brew pot I am going to by soon. They end up $20 higher, but I will pay it to help them out. I know they are not turning much profit yet and want them to make it. Besides they have given me so much in advice and support, they deserve my business.

I just like the fact that you guys are at least thinking this way. I started my little store 3 years ago and it was a promise I made to my customers. Shop local, I guarantee you help me now and I will lower prices as I can, build this to a larger store with all the stuff you need and always help the local brewing clubs etc. I have kept my word and because of their support early on they have a very well stocked LHBS with killer pricing! Talk to your LHBS owner, find out if they have a vision of big things to come or are they complacent. If they are happy where they are and not willing to deal , you tried and gave it your all to support local. If they are willing to give discounts on things they are just off the charts on then win win for both of you. He makes a sale and you get to support the local economy.

Cheers
Jay

I don't care if the price is higher I buy local! I am busy if I need something I tell the LHBS guys and they get it coming. From false bottoms to souring agents to demijohns, I want it they get it, I buy local cause I don't want to spend time waiting on and making sure the crap I order comes in.

When you want advice can you call that web site and get someone to talk to? My LHBS owner has let me pick up stuff on Sun the only day they are closed. I know some stuff is cheaper online but the mail doesn't run on Sunday and late Sat if I need something. I have even payed for stuff and had it stashed out side for me to come get after they closed. NO WEB SITE CAN OFFER THAT!!!!!!
I buy local and that's me. I like no love my LHBS and will always use them. Sorry you all don't have a store like I do but look them up thehomebrewery.com or give them a call 1-800-321-2739.
Happy brewing to all no matter where you get your supplies alls that matters is we make Beer!!

You should be glad that you only have to worry about whether to buy local.

There are three LHBS out here and one of them - the one that has been open since the 80's - is struggling to survive.

So when i buy online, I'm not just not buying locally, I'm not buying from a guy who is fighting to keep his door open and pulling money out of his retirement fund to pay the bills.

That internal struggle is your concience speaking. If your store was price gouging or providing poor service you wouldn't go back and you wouldn't think twice about it. You are just trying to justify being cheap.

Yes, you should feel guilty, but buy online anyway!

Learn to live with the guilt as opposed to flushing your money down the toilet at the LHBS.

I try to buy locally whenever possible. I offer the LHBS an oportunity to meet or match a web price and give consideration to freight and wait times so that it is a fair comparison. Some things are just cheaper on the web, no way around it, but once you add freight and count the time it takes to arrive how much did you really save? So buy local when you can and order off the web when you must. It's a fine sword and the LHBS needs to survive so be a little flexible when you can. Like a 50 pound sack of grain is 50 buck plus freight and that is around 22 bucks so 75 per 50 Lbs web or 90 and get it right now and get it crushed when you want to use it. Some things are just hard to quantify, but keep an eye on the bigger pic and it will work out like it is supposed to.
Bob

I have three local shops to choose from in Atlanta. After seeing grain storage conditions at all three, I have my favorite. It doesn't hurt that their mill has contributed to my recent >85% efficiencies. Morebeer.com's mill never got me over 75. Just sayin. When you buy milled grain online, you can't be sure of the mill or storage conditions.

Anyone can look at Crosby&Baker's or LD Carson's online catalog. If I see something I need, I call the LHBS and give them the info and they can add it to their weekly order. Both C&B and LDC have distribution in ATL, so stuff can be gotten as faster than some online shops.

For unusual hardware items, I still go to Morebeer.com, StainlessBrewing.com, or others.

I don't really get sentimental about business. If your local can't compete with online prices then sadly that's just capitalism/progress.
The only time I tend to consider local over online is if I take up a lot of a salesman's time and he genuinely helps me out. Then I kind of owe them some profit.

That said, part of me envies you US folks for having LHBSes to even consider. Here in the UK LHBSs are very sparse indeed following following a decline in the hobby around the 80s. Short of driving 10 miles out I don't really have an option but to order online :-S

Williams is my virtual LHBS. their selection is great. Prices are reasonable. And for $7 they ship overnight including Saturday delivery. Living just south of SF, there is a tiny shop on the far end of the city and a more beer in Los altos. Both are about 40 min away. Both are hit and miss with customer help (sometimes great, sometimes knuckleheads, both locations). I use them for CO2 and pick up a few bucks in other stuff when there, but for selection, convenience and price, I prefer Williams.

I have a homebrew shop that is like 25-30 minutes from the house. I go monthly. The guy loves his business, and his customer base. He's willing to help do anything from cut your kettles if you need help, cut dip tubes, show you how to do something in your process. Loan out equipment if you need it... You name it.

His prices.. surprisingly, aren't much more than online, and in some cases, are MUCH lower than online. Like hops, and fresh grains.. His yeasts are so fresh I've had some that were less than 5 days old.

So yeah, I enjoy buying local, not only because he recognizes you, and asks how your batches are going, but it willing to help, but also because the prices are good. I bought some keg stuff online because I could get a bit more for my money, but past that, I've never bought anything online for brewing.

Here is the best LHBS www.homebrewery.com call them ther extract kits are great and call 1800-321-brew. The staf is great helpful and have never had any thing they won't get me. Look them up if yours still sucks