Fermenting big beers...

I'm planning on doing my first "big" beer this weekend, a 1.096 Barleywine. My biggest beer so far has been a 1.070 Belgian. What special techniques are necessary to ensure proper fermentation on something this big? Some specific items I'm thinking about are:

1. Mash temp. I brew all-grain, the recipe is mostly two-row with 7.5% Crystal varieties? What mash temp should I use?

2. Aeration I've got an aeration stone and pure O2. Do I simply aerate when pitching the yeast, or several times during the first day?

3. Yeast. Planning on pitching two packs of Nottingham.

4. Incremental feedings. Is this necessary for this size beer?

5. Secondary. I typically do 3-4 weeks in primary for larger beers, then straight to bottle. I'm planning on bottle conditioning this till next winter. On this one should I use a secondary for a month or so prior to bottling?

I think you are going to get a lot of different answers to some of these questions, especially since some of these can be 'it depends' answers. But here is my opinion (assumes 5 gal batch):

1. The typical 152 F is fine.

2. Aerate for two full minutes right after pitching the dry yeast, stirring gently with the wand the whole time. That's probably enough. You could probably also sneak in one more shot (1 min or less) at 12 hours or so (depends on state of fermentation), but I wouldn't do it any later in the process because I would be worried about off-flavours.

3. Two fresh packs of Nottingham should be ideal if you are certain to rehydrate them properly right before pitching

4. Probably not necessary, but I'll admit I don't know much about this

5. I am a *BIG* fan of volume conditioning beer. I think it speeds up the conditioning process and improves the flavour of the beer. Personally, this is one of the few beers that I would DEFINITELY put in a secondary (probably for 6 months minimum). Rack really cleanly from your primary (leave the trub and settled/dead yeast behind) and keep the barleywine on the (healthy) yeast -- this will help the beer to clean itself up much better.


Other advice: watch your temperatures like a hawk! Personally, I like to start bigger beers on the cool side so that there is no danger that the heat of fermentation pushes the fermentation to the high side (or above!) of the recommended temperature range. All that sugar (and later alcohol) is very stressful to the yeast already, and they will be very prone to fusel production (or other off flavours), especially if the temperature creeps up at the beginning of fermentation. Once fermentation starts to subside, you NEED to bring the temps up toward the high end of the range to ensure that you get full attenuation. If you miss this, there isn't much you can do to correct it (other than getting crazy and using champagne yeast or beano -- best avoided if possible). Temperature control is paramount for big beers. I have become a fan of using water baths and an aquarium heater, but fridges/freezers with temperature controllers work almost as well.

I will just speak on the yeast.......

I would get a more interesting yeast if I were you. Nottingham should handle that, but good grief. If not now, when?

www.whitelabs.com

cheezydemon said:

I will just speak on the yeast.......

I would get a more interesting yeast if I were you. Nottingham should handle that, but good grief. If not now, when?

www.whitelabs.com

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OK. I've been using Wyeast primarily, but just did a batch with Nottingham recently and liked what it did. My intentions were to pick something that attenuates well, but is fairly neutral to get out of the way of the other flavors. Plus, using dry yeast means I don't have to make a huge starter.

Bad idea? Any suggestions?

If you are interested in using a more unique yeast: Get one and make a lower gravity beer. Then pitch your barley wine onto the trub of that beer. It's like making a super-starter, only you also get some beer out of it

cheezydemon said:

I would get a more interesting yeast if I were you.[/url]

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Off the top of my head I'm thinking WYeast 1056 might be a good choice?

Personally, if you are going to use 1056 you might as well use Nottingham. Both are pretty clean, neutral yeasts. At least with the dry yeast you won't need to make a monster starter.

yeah and isn't wyeast 1056 just us-05?

I was hoping to brew the Barleywine on Saturday, but i'm not going to be able to make it to my LHBS till Friday. That doesn't leave me much time to make a big enough starter if I go with liquid yeast.

My options at this point are:

1. Put off the Barleywine for another batch so I can use an appropriate liquid yeast.

2. Brew anyway with Nottingham or similar dry yeast. Any recommendations? Is it a bad idea to use Nottingham?

I say follow your original plan, brew this weekend and use the 2 packets of Nottingham.

There are yeasts out there that have more character, but WLP001, Wyeast 1056, and SafAle US-05 are not among them.

I like Nottingham and I think it would be a good yeast for an American Barleywine (but perhaps not if you are doing the English version). In an American Barleywine you want the malt profile and American hops to dominate. While low fruity esters are acceptable in the nose, they generally will not be detectable in a fully matured barleywine (the malt and hop profiles are strong and will generally overwhelm low amounts of fruity esters). Low to moderate fruity flavours from esters are expected in this beer, so I think a clean, fairly neutral yeast like Nottingham is ideal for an American barleywine. Assuming this is your brew, I would definitely use it.

I'll comment on the incremental feedings. Lately I've been brewing a lot of high gravity belgian style beers. I have found, especially when using a yeast that isn't meant for high gravity brews, incremental feeding works very well. The first big Belgian that I brewed started at 1.099 and I had a bast@rd of a time getting the FG below 1.024, the very high end of the FG range for the style/yeast I used. The next batch I made, I left the candi sugar and the corn sugar out of the boil and then added them during vigorous fermentation. I added the candi sugar about 3 days into ferm. and the corn sugar a few days after that. This time my FG got down to 1.013, just about right where I wanted it.

It's pretty easy to overload your yeast and cause them to poop out early when brewing a really big beer.

For fermenting, you definitely want to ramp up the temperature on this bad boy, or you will risk a stuck fermentation. Don't be shy about it, either. Once the fermentation starts to slow after the first two or three days, starting bumping the temperature by a degree or two each day, depending on how quickly the fermentation slows. You do not have to worry so much about off flavors or aromas, since your yeast is slowing so much. Go ahead and rock your carboy every day, too once the yeast slows, just to make sure the yeast stays good and roused.

Racking also helps rouse the yeast, so you may need to finish up your attenuation in the secondary. There's nothing at all wrong with that here.


TL

c.n.budz wrote:
I added the candi sugar about 3 days into ferm. and the corn sugar a few days after that. This time my FG got down to 1.013, just about right where I wanted it.

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Did you aerate at the time of feeding? With incremental feeding and no additional aeration, my Barleywine has gone from 1.133 to 1.033, but I think that’s all that I’m going to get out of it.

TexLaw wrote:
Racking also helps rouse the yeast, so you may need to finish up your attenuation in the secondary. There's nothing at all wrong with that here.

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How long is this true for? I originally brewed on March 16th and just put it into the secondary this past Saturday. Do you think there is any life left in the Wyeast 3787? Thinking that it was done I moved it to the basement at 62 degrees to age.

AnOldUR said:

Did you aerate at the time of feeding? With incremental feeding and no additional aeration, my Barleywine has gone from 1.133 to 1.033, but I think that’s all that I’m going to get out of it.

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No additional aeration, but the volume of liquid for the incremental feedings was only about 2-3 quarts per feeding and at that point.

c.n.budz said:

I'll comment on the incremental feedings. Lately I've been brewing a lot of high gravity belgian style beers. I have found, especially when using a yeast that isn't meant for high gravity brews, incremental feeding works very well. The first big Belgian that I brewed started at 1.099 and I had a bast@rd of a time getting the FG below 1.024, the very high end of the FG range for the style/yeast I used. The next batch I made, I left the candi sugar and the corn sugar out of the boil and then added them during vigorous fermentation. I added the candi sugar about 3 days into ferm. and the corn sugar a few days after that. This time my FG got down to 1.013, just about right where I wanted it.

It's pretty easy to overload your yeast and cause them to poop out early when brewing a really big beer.

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I'm not using any additional sugars in the recipe, but I am planning on doing a parti-gyle brew. I'm taking the strong wort for the barleywine and the weak stuff for something else. Is it even possible to do incremental feeding with this method by saving out wort? Is it even necessary in a Barleywine with a 1.090 OG?