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I think this would be a nice way to help perform this procedure (more) safely: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/pressure-gauge-mounted-bottle-cap-268151/
I have 12 gallons in 3 carboys that fermented in less than a week with champagne yeast. VERY dry. Getting ready to back sweeten and sit for a spell before adding the priming sugar and bottling in 750ml swing tops. Trying to get them ready for xmas so wanna make sure I don't rush anything or miss a step (virgin batch). Would appreciate an opinion:
1. How long should I wait between back sweetening and then bottling?
2. Assuming about 2 weeks for carbonation, correct?
3. Want to NOT have to keep them refrigerated long term but too many bottles and no feasible way to cold crash. Assuming will have to bottle pasteurize per your thread (many gracious thanks BTW) but not sure timing and such for the 750's.
Question ...why not just add Sulfite? Its what most wineries use ... read any bottle of wine and you'll see it
I'm a little concerned at the timing...I made my first batch of cider recently, having had great success with a few home brewed beers. I decided to do a little 7 litre/2 gallon test batch to see how it would turn out. Using just apple juice from my local store, OG was 1044, i pitched a generic "fruit pulp/white wine" yeast recommended by my local wine making shop. After 9 days it was sitting spot on 1000, and four days later it was still 1000. So I added another 1.3 quarts of the original apple juice to this in order to back sweeten, and lower the abv, then bottled.
I was told about this trick of bottling into 1 plastic soft drink bottle, and the rest into glass, then waiting for the plastic bottle to go hard. Was told this "should" take around 6 days. BUT...I bottled two days ago, and the plastic bottle is already very hard, at least as hard as a bottle of coke would be from the shop. I'm obviously nervous about leaving it too long. What's the trick here, open one of my glass bottles and taste it to see if it's carbonated enough, and if so, pasteurize?
That works if you are going to force carbonate it, or drink it still. But if you want to bottle carbonate (bottle condition it), if you stop the yeast with sulfite, it won't work.
But if you are pasteurizing it aren't you also killing the yeast? And wouldn't that also not help in the carbonation process?
Well, I tried this method on 12ozers that I didn't want carbonated at all. I woke up this morning and found that one bottle had exploded. I checked a few other bottles and they all have yeast at the bottom. I guess my only choice is to crack them all open. Too dangerous putting them in hot water with an unknown carb level.
I was told about this trick of bottling into 1 plastic soft drink bottle, and the rest into glass, then waiting for the plastic bottle to go hard. Was told this "should" take around 6 days. BUT...I bottled two days ago, and the plastic bottle is already very hard, at least as hard as a bottle of coke would be from the shop. I'm obviously nervous about leaving it too long. What's the trick here, open one of my glass bottles and taste it to see if it's carbonated enough, and if so, pasteurize?
I was pasteurizing my cider yesterday, and I had one explode as well. I'm quite sure they weren't over carbed. I had them carbing for 6 days, and I was checking one every 2 days. I'd say I ended up at about 1.8-2 vol of CO2 (guessing). Only mildly carbonated I'd say. It was a New Belgium bottle that had likely been used many times before for beer. The explosion was so strong that it dented the thick, aluminum lid of my stock pot! I managed to get 20 out of 55 bottles pateurized, then I ditched the idea after the explosion. I put the rest of the bottles in my beer fridge to stop carbonation.
Great thread - sounds like this could be used for root beer or other sweet carbonated soft drinks too? Those are bottle bombs if you can't get them cold at just the right time.
You could put an uncapped bottle of water with a thermometer into the water bath at the same starting temperature of your 'product' to get a good idea of the temperature in the other bottles. Otherwise, it's a little tough to know just how hot your contents are getting to, but I don't doubt that a ten minute bath in 190F gets you there. Did some digging on Pasteurization temperatures & times:
http://www.iddeas.com/l2-1900.html
http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11201
I see ranges of 6-50 Pasteurization Units, with 50 for non-alcoholic bevs. Formula for Pasteurization Unit (PU):
P.U.'s/minute = 1.2023 to the power of (T-140) where T = temperature in F
P.U.'s/minute = 1.389 to the power of (T-60) where T = temperature in C
Looks like 160-165F will give 50 P.U.'s with just 30-75 SECONDS exposure.
170F is 12 seconds,
180F just 2 seconds.
Of course, since we can't control the temperature variation bottle-to-bottle and even temperature gradients within a bottle, we do need to shoot for the high end on all these.
Dishwashers with sanitize settings get to 167F, I'd assume this happens slow and long enough to get the bottle contents over 160F for 75 seconds, but I don't know. Anyone got a waterproof temperature logger that can fit in a 12 ouncer?
-kenc
would you mind giving us the details of your procedure? would be helpful in isolating the cause and contribute to the body of knowledge this thread is building. Thanks!
Good luck and please follow up
Per Pappers instructions he brings it up to 190 turns off the heat and places bottles in for 10 minutes then removes them and places them on counter for a bit and transfers them to a case to continue cooling .
I know, I was scared at 190 because my water was starting to boil (and yes I knowboiling point is 212). The bottles were rattling off the bottom of the pan and back down at 190...was scarrry
Err on the side of caution. Take the water off the heat. Don't do anything that scares you.
Atfer said:I've been wondering something! Could a plastic soda bottle be used to see if the pressure is right? When bottling, we could bottle a sample of the cider in a plastic soda bottle of the same size and volume as the beer bottle and cap it. When the soda bottle would be firm enough, then the pressure would be good in the beer bottle! To save the cider, the soda bottle could be cold crashed and drank since it wouldn't stand the heat of the pasteurization. This way, with experience, no bottle would have to be opened to check the pressure!
I don't know if that have ever been tried, but I'll sure try that once my new batch is ready for bottling!
Good luck and please follow up
Sounds like a great way to end a scary day.. Glad it looks good... please do follow up when its been sitting for a bit.
So without reading 51 pages... all done and pasteurised, do I leave it the min 4 weeks like beer or?
Stauffbier said:I'm not sure what you mean. Did you actually carbonate before you pasteurized? If not they will never carb up now. If you did then you can chill them and drink them right away. Maybe give them a few days in the fridge for the co2 to absorb back in to the liquid...
Yea i carbed them up!
So ur saying there pretty much good to go after pasteurising and a few days in the fridge?
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