That was my point. I forgot to quote the post I was responding to. It was this one.
BIAB Brewing (with pics)
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That was my point. I forgot to quote the post I was responding to. It was this one.
I'm enjoying the discussion. Sorry for the lack of response but I have been out of town and its cumbersome to reply on my phone. All of these topics have been discussed at some length various places. I read quite a bit on the volume and squeezing issues and came to the conclusion that has been expressed here, that its fine to squeeze and that 2.5-3 quarts water per pound is plenty. It is possible that there were clumps but I thought I stirred pretty thoroughly before putting on the lid of my pot and wrapping in towels. I might have profited from a mashout and a sparge. Who knows. I'll just have to try to get both of those things in next time and see how I do. I very busy so I have decided to do a two week primary and a 1 week secondary with dry hops. So still a few days before I take an SG.
bowa41
Member
Wow, this thread was a great resource. On to my questions...
I am moving from solely extract/specialty grains to BIAB. I believe that I have everything down, more or less, except mashing.
In looking through the all grain recipes on here, it seems as though each recipe has its own mash-in temperature. Am I correct in believing that this will vary from recipe-to-recipe, or is this more of a personal preference? If it is, in fact, personal preference, then what are the differences between a higher and lower mash-in temperature?
Second, and a related question, is since the mash-in temperatures seem to vary from recipe-to-recipe, how does one determine what strike temperature that they will need to hit? I realize that this higher strike temperature accounts for the temperature loss when adding the grains, which allows you to get to the mash-in temperature. Is there a general calculation that will help me determine this?
Finally, going through all nearly 30 pages of this thread, I see that there are discrepancies in how long the mash-in should take. If my memory is correct, I have seen mash-in durations varying from 60 to 90 minutes. Is this preference? I assume that the additional time past the 60 minute mash in leads to a higher efficiency?
Whew - sorry for the long-winded post, but any and all help would be great!
I am moving from solely extract/specialty grains to BIAB. I believe that I have everything down, more or less, except mashing.
In looking through the all grain recipes on here, it seems as though each recipe has its own mash-in temperature. Am I correct in believing that this will vary from recipe-to-recipe, or is this more of a personal preference? If it is, in fact, personal preference, then what are the differences between a higher and lower mash-in temperature?
Second, and a related question, is since the mash-in temperatures seem to vary from recipe-to-recipe, how does one determine what strike temperature that they will need to hit? I realize that this higher strike temperature accounts for the temperature loss when adding the grains, which allows you to get to the mash-in temperature. Is there a general calculation that will help me determine this?
Finally, going through all nearly 30 pages of this thread, I see that there are discrepancies in how long the mash-in should take. If my memory is correct, I have seen mash-in durations varying from 60 to 90 minutes. Is this preference? I assume that the additional time past the 60 minute mash in leads to a higher efficiency?
Whew - sorry for the long-winded post, but any and all help would be great!
higher mash temps is for a more full bodied beer with less fermentable sugars. A lower mash temp gives more fermentable sugars and a thinner body.
most brewing software will have tools to help calculate the strike temp based on grain temp and equipment. after a while you'll learn what you need for your setup
60 or 90... its really personal preference.. MOST of the conversion takes place in the first 15 to 20 minutes.. I mash for 90 minutes. does it make for higher efficiency? who knows. with BIAB the brew day is going to be pretty short so why worry about a 90 minute mash. Start to clean up for me is about 3.5 hours.. the biggest things to remember are, crush the hell out of the grain.. if you buy it pre-crushed from the LHBS, have them double crush it. the other big thing and most important is.. Have fun.. you're only making beer. people have been doing this for a loooong time. they made beer long before thermometers were invented and before they even knew what yeast was and it still ended up being beer.
johnodon
Well-Known Member
I really cannot explain why, but I have found that I can dough-in right at my desired mash temp or 1 degree higher. When I used a converted cooler mash tun, my strike water needed to be 5 - 6 degrees higher. Seven, who started this thread, has actually said that he/she doughs-in at a lower temp and then raises it to the desired mash temp. I haven't had teh balls to try this yet.
Also, this is another reason I love electric brewing. Even if I do dough-in at mash temp and the temp falls a few degrees, the element brings it back to where it needs to be without any intervention from me.
John
bowa41
Member
Would there be any detriment to adding your grains at X* (some temperature lower than your mash temperature), and keeping the heat on until you get up to your desired mash temperature? In other words, is there any real purpose in even calculating out and utilizing a strike temperature?
johnodon
Well-Known Member
None at all. Actually, this is the preferred method for any beer that has wheat. Do a search for "step mashing".
John
Seven
Well-Known Member
Here's what I've been doing lately: (credit to jeffmeh for sharing this technique)
- Add the grains at about 140-degrees F.
- Stir aggressively to get the temp uniform throughout the mash
- Bring the temp up to 145-degrees
- Cut the heat, cover, and check the temp again after 5-minutes
- Add a bit more heat if necessary to reach target mash temp
I also like to check the temp again about half-way through the mash time to ensure I'm still at the right temp.
johnodon
Well-Known Member
I just want to make the point one more time that I have not seen this with my electric setup. It is set-it-and-forget-it.
Yeah...I'm trying to sell everyone on E-BiaB.
John
Seven
Well-Known Member
I just want to make the point one more time that I have not seen this with my electric setup. It is set-it-and-forget-it.
Yeah...I'm trying to sell everyone on E-BiaB.
John
Cool. I have a sankey keg that I have been meaning to convert into something useful some day... maybe eBIAB ???
OzarkPA
Well-Known Member
Whew! Finally read the whole thread! I'm excited to have a new use for my 20g crawdad pot when they're out of season
Re burning bags... Has anyone actually burned one? Reminds me about that experiment when I was a kid. Hold a flame under a styrofoam cup with water and without - check the results (have a receptacle for the one without.....)
Re burning bags... Has anyone actually burned one? Reminds me about that experiment when I was a kid. Hold a flame under a styrofoam cup with water and without - check the results (have a receptacle for the one without.....)
CanadianQuaffer
Well-Known Member
Would an 8 gallon brew-pot be big enough to do 5 gallion batches using the BIAB method?
Depends on how big your grain bill is. For most of my brews, my water amount is between 7-8 gallons (or more!), then add in the grains. FWIW, I'm one of those people who adds all my water and grain, no sparge.
For your size kettle you might need to use one of the sparge methods.
CanadianQuaffer
Well-Known Member
Why so much water? I understand that the grain will absorb a lot of it, but don't you let the water from the grain drip back into your prew pot?
Cheers,
Nick
CanadianQuaffer said:
Yes but not all will drip into the pot even when you squeeze the bag. To determine the amount needed use this formula. Batch size + absorption + boil off + trub loss = water needed. For absorption use grain in lbs. X .08 (or .05 if you squeeze the crap out of the bag like I do.)
Sent from my Epic 4g using Home Brew Talk
houndsbreath
Well-Known Member
Making an American Stout via BIAB and drinking my own Belgian IPA modeled after Raging ***** (tasty) as we speak. Smells like coffee and chocolate in the whole house; it's the darkest wort I have made yet and damn does it look good. I appreciate the genius behind BIAB each time I make a batch. keep it simple stupid!
flyfisherwes
Well-Known Member
houndsbreath said:
Let me know how the raging ***** stuff turns out. It's my favorite beer. I'll also be needing the recipe if it's good. Haha.
that's it exactly. that number will give you a little extra in case you boil off more than anticipated. Once you have your system dialed in you can lower that number or raise it depending on how much or little you squeeze the bag. I squeeze the heck out of mine and use .05. here's an example of how I would use the formula.
5.5gallon batch
12lbs grain x .05 = .6 gallon absorption
trub loss .25 gallon
boil off in 1 hour 1.25
5.5 + .6 + .25 + 1.25 = 7.6 gallons of water needed. the nice thing about the formula is. It doesn't matter if you do a full volume BIAB like I do or if you sparge, you still need that much water.
johnodon
Well-Known Member
You really need to figure out where all of your loss occurs.
For instance...
I just did an Ordinary Bitter that was only 7.25lbs of grains and my full volume of water was exactly 10 gal. with a boil volume of 9.48 gal. I account for .075 gal/lb of grain absorbtion. This ratio works well for me and I hit my target boil volume and SG on the nose.
I have a very aggressive boil since I am using a E-BiaB system (hot water heater element) and haven't played with the PID settings yet to calm the boil. I literally set the PID to 212F and let 'er rip. Because of this my evaporation rate is very high...upwards of 1.6 g/hr.
I also have loss with my chugger pump and hoses. Add in a CFC...more loss. Altogether I lose close to another gallon. In the end I hit my target batch volume of 5.5 gal. and OG. I may have left about .25 gal. behind in teh kettle so I can do a little more tinkering yet. However, I am quite happy with where I am right now.
So, if you are not using a pump or a CFC (use an IC instead), your loss will be a lot less.
All things you need to consider when calculating water volumes.
John
For instance...
I just did an Ordinary Bitter that was only 7.25lbs of grains and my full volume of water was exactly 10 gal. with a boil volume of 9.48 gal. I account for .075 gal/lb of grain absorbtion. This ratio works well for me and I hit my target boil volume and SG on the nose.
I have a very aggressive boil since I am using a E-BiaB system (hot water heater element) and haven't played with the PID settings yet to calm the boil. I literally set the PID to 212F and let 'er rip. Because of this my evaporation rate is very high...upwards of 1.6 g/hr.
I also have loss with my chugger pump and hoses. Add in a CFC...more loss. Altogether I lose close to another gallon. In the end I hit my target batch volume of 5.5 gal. and OG. I may have left about .25 gal. behind in teh kettle so I can do a little more tinkering yet. However, I am quite happy with where I am right now.
So, if you are not using a pump or a CFC (use an IC instead), your loss will be a lot less.
All things you need to consider when calculating water volumes.
John
of course you need to know the total losses for your system. once you know how much is lost to the CFC and pump, adjust the trub loss amount and always adjust the boil off per your system. once you know the numbers the formula works great...its just those first few batches that you end up with to much or to little... of course both are easy enough to deal with.
johnodon
Well-Known Member
Remeber also...you can always compensate with a longer boil (if you overshoot your total volume) or adding water (if you undershoot). As Mystic said...the first few batches are a "feeling out" phase.
John
John
OzarkPA
Well-Known Member
Can you also correct if your sg reading isn't where it should be? As in, adding sugar to the wort to make up for a less efficient extraction?
You can add water if you overshoot your sg. You can add dme if you undershoot it.
while water can be added post boil, I would add the DME pre-boil... that's why a pre-boil gravity reading is needed (and to help determine extraction efficiency)
OzarkPA
Well-Known Member
That makes sense - i wasn't thinking it through. Post boil would have no hot break on the dme.
johnodon
Well-Known Member
Quick question about protein rest and BIAB...
Do any of you do it?
I know I have seen it mentioned other places but can't find a definitive answer. What types of grains require (or benefit from ) a protein rest? Flaked wheat?
And just to make sure I have this correct...protein rest is 122F - 128F for 10 - 15 minutes? After that, ramp up to mormal mash temps.
TIA!
John
Do any of you do it?
I know I have seen it mentioned other places but can't find a definitive answer. What types of grains require (or benefit from ) a protein rest? Flaked wheat?
And just to make sure I have this correct...protein rest is 122F - 128F for 10 - 15 minutes? After that, ramp up to mormal mash temps.
TIA!
John
JimTheHick
Well-Known Member
johnodon said:
I do not.
tektonjp
Well-Known Member
johnodon said:
When doing a wheat beer I think this is essential for the conversion of the wheat. Normal malt really doesn't need a rest but wheat does. 10-15 minutes at about 122 is plenty. I then ramp the temp up to normal mashing temps for the rest of the mash. My wheats have turned out awesome with this step.
JimTheHick
Well-Known Member
tektonjp said:
I have heard this suggested when you have a major wheat component in the grist. However when I use just a pound of flaked wheat as adjunct i don't bother with the rest.
johnodon
Well-Known Member
Are there any other ingredients that this applies to (be it grains or adjuncts)?
Thanks,
John
flyfisherwes
Well-Known Member
Question: are recipees for Biab and traditional ag different? Or can traditional recipes be uses for Biab without changes?
no, yes
The only adjustments I have made are for the increased efficiency I get with BIAB.
I have a newby question. I mashed my grain and realized I don't have enough propane to do a 60 minute boil. Is there any problem in letting my unfermented and un boiled wort set overnight and boil it tomorrow. Thanks for any advise.
I would advise putting some heat on it, say bring it to 200 degrees to kill any bugs that carried over from the mash. Less chance it will sour or go off having been pastuerized prior to sitting the night.
it would be better to run get some propane now if possible. If nothing else, heat it to at least 170F and hold it there for 15 minutes, that'll kill off most nasties. then seal it in a bucket with airlock or other airtight container.
This method looks a little easier than normal AG. Anyone ever just dunk the spent grain bag in another already heated kettle with water to do a quick partigyle? Seems like if you had an extra kettle you could just boil that one while you are finishing up the first batch.
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