Old Ale Recipe - Thoughts?

Hello all,

So I've been interested in brewing an Old Ale for some time and I've recently developed a recipe that I would like comments/suggestions on.

Here is my recipe SO FAR (it's a work-in-progress)

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Size: 11.0*gal

Ingredients:
21.0*lb Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt (69.0%)
4.0*lb Munich TYPE I (13.8%)
2.0*lb Caramel Malt 60L (6.9%)
1.0*lb Special B - Caramel malt (3.4%)
1.0*lb Barley Flaked
1.0*lb Molasses (3.4%)

4.0*oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60*m
2.0*oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 1*m
1.0*ea White Labs WLP004 Irish Stout

Schedule:
Mash @ 152 for 60 mins
Boil for 3 Hours

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I plan on boiling for 3 hours (melanoiden formation, yadda yadda) in my keggle. I usually start with about 13 and end off close to 11 gals. Since I'm boiling for longer, I will obviously boil off more (3gals to be exact). Will there be any major disadvantages to adding 3 gals of water to the fermenter/post-boil?

That's pretty much it for now. I would like to add treacle but I can't seem to find it at any of my LHBSs. Any suggestions on a good substitute?

That's a lot of molasses, I'd ramp it down to more like 2-4oz per 5 gallons. That's also a lot of crystal and flaked barley with unfermentables, you might want to ramp it down from ~2lbs unfermentables per 5 gallon. Otherwise, looks good.

Instead of treacle, you could try Muscovado Sugar, which comes in a dark & light variant.

My old ale is 5% Muscovado, 5% honey, and 82% Maris otter, the rest being character like flaked barley, roast barley, aromatic malts.

I've only done as much as 90 min boils. 3 hours sounds like a long day... Just wondering if doing a little decoction mash, or flash boil some wort seperatly, or melanoidin malt, would be easier??

Good luck!
--LexusChris

2 base malts and 4 adjuncts could muddy the flavor. maybe shoot for no more than 3 or 4 altogether? a beer can't be everything at once. it's a rainbow, all the colors are beautiful but if you mix them all you just get black.

I'd cut the munich. You've got caramel from the c-60, raisin from the special B, toasty from the MO, and rummy from the molasses. That is already a lot of flavors.

I've got two old ales going right now. Not going to touch them until Christmas, so I can't say how they taste.

Good points.

I put the Munich in for increased malty flavor. I definitely want to shave down some grain, just don't know where to start. I definitely want malty with a hint of fruity/raisin in the background. Everything else is just secondary to me.

Maybe cutting the Flaked barley and molasses? Or at least one of the two?

LexusChris said:

Instead of treacle, you could try Muscovado Sugar, which comes in a dark & light variant.

My old ale is 5% Muscovado, 5% honey, and 82% Maris otter, the rest being character like flaked barley, roast barley, aromatic malts.

I've only done as much as 90 min boils. 3 hours sounds like a long day... Just wondering if doing a little decoction mash, or flash boil some wort seperatly, or melanoidin malt, would be easier??

Good luck!
--LexusChris

Click to expand...

I've decided to make some adjustments. I've realized it's not neccessary to have a 3 hour mash due to the increase malt flavoring from the Munich Malt. I'm going to keep the recipe as is now, and instead drop the boil to 90 mins.

I'm not going to comment on the recipe because I'm not qualified, but for treacle, you could try http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BTEHRC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

-a.

so I changed up my Recipe a bit, let me know what you think.

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Old School Ale
19-A Old Ale
Author: Sean Torres
Date: 1/2/12

Size: 11.0*gal
Efficiency: 80.0%
Calories: 246.41*kcal per 12.0*fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.073 (1.060 - 1.090)
Terminal Gravity: 1.020 (1.015 - 1.022)
Color: 19.61 (10.0 - 22.0)
Alcohol: 7.07% (6.0% - 9.0%)
Bitterness: 68.1 (30.0 - 60.0)

Ingredients:
22.0*lb Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt
4.0*lb Munich TYPE I
1.0*lb Special B - Caramel malt
.5*lb Chocolate Malt
1.0*lb Molasses
8.0*oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 90.0*m
1.0*ea WYeast 1318 London Ale III™

Schedule:
Ambient Air: 70.0*°F
Source Water: 60.0*°F
Elevation: 0.0*m

00:04:59 Dough in - Liquor: 8.59*gal; Strike: 166.9*°F; Target: 154*°F
01:35:00 Single Infusion - Rest: 90*m; Final: 154.0*°F
01:35:00 Untitled Step - Sparge Volume: 13.75*gal; Sparge Temperature: 168.0*°F; Runoff: 13.79*gal

Notes
London All III Yeast:
Flocculation: high
Attenuation: 71-75%
Temperature Range: 64-74° F (18-23° C)

Water Treatment (adjust):

Total Alkalinity to 100-120 ppm (as CaCO3)
Calcium to 180-220 ppm (as Calcium Sulfate)

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.20
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Now here's my question. This beer is being brewed according to Ant Hayes' (RIP) article on Burton Ale. The article can be found here. I immediately noticed how high his first addition was. He justifies this addition stating, "Beyond a certain point, extra hops adds few IBUs; however, they add complexity to flavor."

Right now, my recipe is designed to MATCH his hop addition of 8oz on 5 gals, which definitely brings the style out of guidelines (according to BJCP standards). This would mean I would need 16 oz of East Goldings as my first addition, which is a ridiculous amount of hops.

So my question becomes, at what point does a large hop addition no longer attribute to bitterness? Additionally, is it even feasible to add that many hops to this kind of beer?

His hop additions are perfectly normal for a Burton Ale, these were among the most highly hopped ales of their day and his hopping schedule is in line with that. If you want to go the historical route, then adding all those hops into the boil is certainly worth doing so. The character you get from using a ton of low AA hops in the beginning of the boil is different than just using a small amount of a high AA, you'll get a strong resiny bitterness and a sizable amount of hop flavor and some aroma. If you just want a more modern, BJCP old ale, then I'd save the goldings and use a high alpha UK variety like Challenger.

Recipe wise, it looks fine for an old ale, although it is certainly not a burton. Regardless, I would drop the molasses for sure, or at least substitute it for something like British invert syrup... which you can easily make at home. Good yeast choice though.

I'll drop the molasses, but I'd like to keep the Special B. Would it be more appropriate then? with a pound of Goldings?

What are you trying to make - an Old Ale or a Burton?

Old ales are rather arbitrary, whatever you want to use in the recipe works well enough. I don't care for molasses in mine, as I think the flavor detracts from the malt and will thin out the beer. Historical Burton ales on the other hand, are very simple things. Pale malt with a ton of hops and a very low level of attenuation. Think OG 1.095+, 120 ibu, and around 60% attenuation for a FG of 1.030-40. Boil for a few hours, ferment, and age for 2+ years. A small amount of chocolate malt will add color if you want it darker.

What you have in your recipe, sans the molasses in my opinion, will make a nice old ale. If you are going the old ale route, I'd probably not use the lb of goldings and just bitter to 60-70ibu with challenger or another non-citrusy high AA hop. Even magnum would do well enough. Good luck.

I'm brewing for the Any Hayes' Memorial Burton (Old) Ale, so I'm kind of torn between brewing a Burton, or Brewing an Old Ale. Reason being, the style for this AHA CoC is 19A (Old Ale), so I guess I can either stick with the Old Ale recipe, or shoot for a Burton style Ale. Either or should qualify for the competition.

So I'm pretty much struggling with the decision to either brew an Old ale, or a Burton Ale.

I'm starting down this path myself, here momentarily. I'd like to get something close to Papier/Cuir/Fruet.

I spoke to the organizers of the competition, and they said to brew an Old Ale according to the BJCP style guideline, not a Burton styled ale found in Ant's writings.

I know it's an Old Thread, but I figured I'd update it anyway. Kegged, and this beer came out AMAZING. Close to four months aged, and it's just phenomenal.

Nice.

I'm going for one that's 19# Maris Otter, 2# C-80, 2# Muscovado sugar, and 4oz Choc. Malt. Then hopping with Fuggles... Also going to do the Wyeast Old Ale blend.