Roggenbier

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DeathBrewer

DeathBrewer

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Stepping up the recipe that started with this thread.

I'm going to do this tomorrow. My friends tell me this is one of the best beers they've ever had, and I agree, so I'm going to make it a staple house ale.

Previous recipe had wheat extract due to poor efficiency, this one is all rye and I hope to hit 70%+ efficiency this time. I upped the quantity of rye and pilsner a bit to compensate as well.

I'm not using my big fermenters, I'm just going to split this between two carboys and use two different yeasts, the White Labs WLP300 Hefeweizen and the Wyeast 3056 Bavarian Wheat. (I couldn't get the 3068 or the munich yeast, unfortunately.)

There will actually be 7.25 gallons for the initial mash, as I will be using a pound of rice hulls.

If all goes well, this will go in the recipe database.
:mug:

050309 Roggenbier

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

15-D German Wheat And Rye Beer, Roggenbier (German Rye Beer)

Min OG: 1.046 Max OG: 1.056
Min IBU: 10 Max IBU: 20
Min Clr: 14 Max Clr: 19 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 11.00 Wort Size (Gal): 11.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 21.50
Anticipated OG: 1.046 Plato: 11.45
Anticipated SRM: 14.1
Anticipated IBU: 14.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 12.94 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.039 SG 9.78 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
46.5 10.00 lbs. Rye Malt America 1.030 4
23.3 5.00 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
14.0 3.00 lbs. Vienna Malt Germany 1.037 3
9.3 2.00 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 1.037 8
4.7 1.00 lbs. CaraVienne Malt Belgium 1.034 22
1.2 0.25 lbs. Carafa II Germany 1.030 450
1.2 0.25 lbs. Chocolate Malt America 1.029 350

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Tettnanger Pellets Pellet 4.20 8.5 First WH
1.00 oz. German Hersbrucker Pellet Pellet 2.40 5.4 60 min.
1.00 oz. Saaz (Czech) Pellet Pellet 2.50 0.9 5 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP300 Hefeweizen Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 21.50
Water Qts: 27.99 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 7.00 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.30 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 150 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 20


Total Mash Volume Gal: 8.72 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
Click to expand...
 
I too am adding a roggen to my list of "on hand". The last of what I brewed in Feb will float by the end of the week. It has pleased almost all who have tried it. I will say that right off the bat I said yuck, so I stashed it away until I ran out of other beers. I am glad I did. It was absolutely fantastic when I pulled it out again. Just goes to prove time heals all beers. I'm wondering if it would be even better after about 6 months. The world may never know.:)
 
Longest. Brew. Day. Ever.

Mashed in at 2:30, Mashed out at 3:45, Sparged at 4:00, Sparge ended at 7:45, Boil started at 8:00, ended at 9:00 and ran through counter-flow chiller, run-off ended at 12:00, ran to buy water (2 gallons lost in mash), and finished cleaning at 1:00. Ugh.

Note to self: Use at least 1 lb of Rice Hulls for every 5 lbs of Rye Malt. That was the problem with the sparge...a gummy mess. The boil run-off was muck built up in the chiller, which I discovered upon cleaning it (it wouldn't run boiling water through it until I blew through the line.)

I still got 77% efficiency, even with topping off. Came to 1.053. Was shooting for 1.046, but it's still to style and it tastes great.

Only real problem was the FWH. I only left them in for the first 3 gallons or so, not for the rest of the runoff. It started to boil a bit (I add heat as I run off) and I just decided to pull them even though I was turning the heat down. Will definitely still contribute, but won't be the same as the original.

Ahh, well. It was a good Sunday brew and in a few weeks I'll have some good damn beer. Nighty night...it is FAR past my bedtime.
:mug:
 
Oh, I also did a decoction mash-out. It's unfortunate that everything took so long, because I hit all my temps dead on.

Final recipe for the day:

050309 Roggenbier

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

15-D German Wheat And Rye Beer, Roggenbier (German Rye Beer)

Min OG: 1.046 Max OG: 1.056
Min IBU: 10 Max IBU: 20
Min Clr: 14 Max Clr: 19 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 10.50 Wort Size (Gal): 10.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 21.50
Anticipated OG: 1.053 Plato: 13.11
Anticipated SRM: 14.5
Anticipated IBU: 15.2
Brewhouse Efficiency: 77 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 12.35 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.045 SG 11.22 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
46.5 10.00 lbs. Rye Malt America 1.030 4
23.3 5.00 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
14.0 3.00 lbs. Vienna Malt Germany 1.037 3
9.3 2.00 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 1.037 8
4.7 1.00 lbs. CaraVienne Malt Belgium 1.034 22
1.2 0.25 lbs. Carafa II Germany 1.030 450
1.2 0.25 lbs. Chocolate Malt America 1.029 350

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Tettnanger Pellets Pellet 4.20 8.7 First WH
1.00 oz. German Hersbrucker Pellet Pellet 2.40 5.5 60 min.
1.00 oz. Saaz (Czech) Pellet Pellet 2.50 1.0 5 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP300 Hefeweizen Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 21.50
Water Qts: 28.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 7.00 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.30 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 150 Time: 75
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 15
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 20


Total Mash Volume Gal: 8.72 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
Click to expand...
 
In making this beer (or the slightly different first version of it) I had a terrible stuck sparge with the 5 lbs of rye, too. I'm glad to hear you did a decoction mash-out because I decided to do one myself with this beer. It just seemed like a recipe that might benefit from one, and you validated my thinking (whoopty-fricking-doo, I know, but I'm still learning and that was my first decoction mash-out).......Anyhow, I had to just stir the grain bed all around and scrape off the bazooka screen over and over to get the wort out - is that a really bad thing to do?

Oh, and I fermented cool at around 62 and the sulfur smell was killing me, so I brought it up from my basement yesterday to warm up a bit and hopefully be ready for bottling on thursday (day 14)....what temp do you like with WLP300?

I can't wait for this stuff......it looks so f'n good.
 
I prefer the low 60s...I'm not controlling this temp, however, so I think it's currently sitting at about 64°F in my basement.

I too had to scrape the screen a bit...didn't help much, tho. I think the best thing to do is get a good trickle going and then go take a nap. I think I over-shredded my rye, too. This probably helped efficiency, but still made it gummy as hell. I might even go with 3 lbs of rice hulls next time with my 10 lbs of rye.

I still have to clean the pot tonight, it was too late last night and it was a sticky mess, so I just left it in a sodium percarbonate solution overnight. Man, that rye is ridiculous...my fingers, the spigot, the paddle, everything that touched that crap was out of control sticky.

This beer may be a good candidate for my tea-bag method, but it sure is a pain in the ass for false bottoms. Hopefully more rice hulls will help, because it's too damn good to only make 5 gallons at a time.
 
Brewed this recipe (one at top of post) on 4/25. Getting ready to bottle it this coming weekend. First impression is that it's very light, can't really notice the rye myself, and the yeast comes through like a mofo! I used a 3068 slurry from a hefe I brewed a couple weeks prior. I'm looking forward to what it'll be like after it's carb'd and chilled a bit. I had planned on fermenting it low, around 64, but the overnight lows here are still too low and my ferm fridge was dropping to 61 not even plugged in. So I had to ferment in the basement, and it went up to 71 internal. Which explains the immense yeast character.
 
61°F would be a great temp for any of the liquid hefeweizen yeasts. I'd stick with that next time. The rye is definitely subdued...I think the FWH helps ALOT with that, softening the flavor. Previous rye beers were always very spicy.

Still should be good, tho. Wish I had another one to keg right now! I think I'm going to brew every day this week, so I have my stock back up :)
 
Well, Wyeast's website says 64°-75°, so I didn't want to stretch it. But also, since it was too cold at night, there would be about 5 deg of fluctuation throughout a 24 hr cycle that I didn't think would be good. Either way I'm getting a freezer from Craigslist for $50 tomorrow that should fit through my basement door. So no more worrying about that.
 
DeathBrewer said:
Mine was great fresh, but it's a very light beer. What was your recipe like?
Click to expand...
I used JC's roggenbier out of Oct 08 BYO. And exceeded expected eff. so the OG was a bit high. I also mashed lower than he suggested looking for better attenuation. I have had some attenuation issues up to this but I think I might have found my fix. I ended up with a 5.7% roggenbier, just took a couple months to meld.
 
DB,
so, I brewed this several weeks ago from your post in another thread about rye beers. It turned out phenomenal (really, it's awesome), but something in my process or the recipe I used made the body really thick for the style. I've dubbed this batch rye-nectar, because the consistency is not far from real fruit nectar. It's amazing to watch the head build up when you pour this from the bottle....the bubbles move in slow motion because of the milkshake texture of the beer....it's cool!

anyhow, I am a little confused about this since I mashed at 152 and the beer attenuated down to a basically normal 1.016 (from 1.046). did yours turn out thick at all? I would have to guess that maybe somehow I got the gummy starches that clogged my sparge-process into the beer, but I'd have thought the boil would've broken the stuff down. any ideas?

in any case, I'll be trying again sometime because it's freaking tasty, but I'd like to thin 'er down.....
 
snailsongs said:
but something in my process or the recipe I used made the body really thick for the style. I've dubbed this batch rye-nectar, because the consistency is not far from real fruit nectar.
Click to expand...
Here's a thread I started on this same issue. I said "oily", but your description of the consistency of fruit nectar is better. I jacked up the CO2 pressure to 18PSI. It still comes out of the tap thick, but now it developes a dense head with great lacing. The higher carbonation level does help with the mouth feel.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/rye-grain-oily-mouthfeel-117706/
 
AnOldUR said:
Here's a thread I started on this same issue. I said "oily", but your description of the consistency of fruit nectar is better. I jacked up the CO2 pressure to 18PSI. It still comes out of the tap thick, but now it developes a dense head with great lacing. The higher carbonation level does help with the mouth feel.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/rye-grain-oily-mouthfeel-117706/
Click to expand...

sounds like a beta-glucan rest is in order for round #2......on the plus side, now we know a great go-to 'secret' ingredient for a rich stout. :mug:
 
This is interesting. The WLP300 on my last batch made the beer a little thick, but still smooth and refreshing. The 3056, however, is really thick, almost syrupy, and doesn't taste near as good. Still a decent beer and some cold conditioning might allow it to settle, but I won't use it again.

I still need to do a test with the 3068 and the dry yeast, maybe the WLP380, but I think the WLP300 is a winner.

Indeed, I think a Beta-glucan rest is in order for the next try, maybe this week sometime. Thanks for the info.

As for the stout, check out the Irish Rye Stout recipe in my pulldown. Very fast, tasty beer...I once tapped it and drank the whole thing 5 days after brewing.
:mug:
 
DeathBrewer said:
This is interesting. The WLP300 on my last batch made the beer a little thick, but still smooth and refreshing. The 3056, however, is really thick, almost syrupy, and doesn't taste near as good. Still a decent beer and some cold conditioning might allow it to settle, but I won't use it again.

I still need to do a test with the 3068 and the dry yeast, maybe the WLP380, but I think the WLP300 is a winner.

Indeed, I think a Beta-glucan rest is in order for the next try, maybe this week sometime. Thanks for the info.

As for the stout, check out the Irish Rye Stout recipe in my pulldown. Very fast, tasty beer...I once tapped it and drank the whole thing 5 days after brewing.
:mug:
Click to expand...

3068 is what I used, actually, and got the syrupy rye-shake I have now, but that's supposed to be the same strain of yeast as WLP300. Is there a reason they might produce different beers? (actually, I hadn't thought the yeast would have much to do with the issue at all, but rather was looking at the mashing and lautering as the cause/solution.....)

We should get this rye action figured out, because this is an otherwise excellent beer. :mug:
 
They use different methods of propogating, storing, etc. so even though they are supposed to be the same yeast, I'd imagine they give you a different beer.

No, I don't think the yeast is the sole problem, but having one that does not flocculate well will certainly add some thickness.

I think next step is definitely beta glucan rest, but I'm trying out all the wheat yeasts as a side test.

I still enjoy every glass ;)
 
Just a quick update....That syrup texture has improved greatly with another several days aging and a couple days in the fridge.....I drank three of them this evening. They were wonderful. I had to stop myself from getting all drunk on them while my mother is here visiting.....
 
I poured my first bottle of this recipe last night, and I've got to say, I am sorely disapointed. I really had high expectations for this beer, but for me, it's completely lacking definition. It has almost zero malt character, it's a little too bitter for the style, and it just takes like yeasty dish water. I'm very sad :(
I'm going to let this age for at least another month before I crack open another one in hopes that it will improve. But I gotta say I'm glad I only made 2.5 gal of this.
I hope others enjoy this recipe, but it's just not what I had expected. Now it's time to work on making what I did expect :)
EDIT: I used a 3068 slurry for my yeast
 
jacksonbrown said:
I poured my first bottle of this recipe last night, and I've got to say, I am sorely disapointed. I really had high expectations for this beer, but for me, it's completely lacking definition. It has almost zero malt character, it's a little too bitter for the style, and it just takes like yeasty dish water. I'm very sad :(
I'm going to let this age for at least another month before I crack open another one in hopes that it will improve. But I gotta say I'm glad I only made 2.5 gal of this.
I hope others enjoy this recipe, but it's just not what I had expected. Now it's time to work on making what I did expect :)
EDIT: I used a 3068 slurry for my yeast
Click to expand...

That's crazy! I wonder if something went wrong with yours somewhere. I had to age mine a couple weeks longer than planned to get rid of a sulphur note, and we've all had a little issue with the body of this beer, but mine ulitmately turned out to be a delicious beer. I would describe the brew I made as a rich dunkelweizen with a rye-spice note that perfectly compliments the spice and fruit from the WY-3068.....in other words, awesome!
 
The body on mine was the best part. Light and thin with a higher level of CO2. I lost quite a bit of heat during the mash, which explains the body, but shouldn't have had an effect on the flavor profile. I can't even taste the rye at all. Eh, like I said, I'll wait it out and see how it goes.
 
jacksonbrown said:
The body on mine was the best part. Light and thin with a higher level of CO2. I lost quite a bit of heat during the mash, which explains the body, but shouldn't have had an effect on the flavor profile. I can't even taste the rye at all. Eh, like I said, I'll wait it out and see how it goes.
Click to expand...
Skimming through this thread, it looks like you brewed https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/heferyezen-recipe-110551/, not DeathBrewers version. If that's the case, it's 20% rye instead of DeathBrewer's nearly half. That would make a huge difference in both the rye flavor and the body.

jacksonbrown said:
Brewed this recipe (one at top of post) . . .
Click to expand...
DeathBrewer said:
Stepping up the recipe that started with this thread.
Click to expand...
 
Odd, "zero malt character" with the munich and vienna, not to mention the rye???

Wait...I think I know what might have happened, if it's bitterness is a little overpowering....did you leave the First Wort Hops in for the whole boil? I remove my FWH before the boil begins. Just a thought on the bitterness.

I don't know how it could be thin or watery, tho. I've experienced the exact opposite with all my roggenbiers.

Give me your ACTUAL recipe and process, I'd like to look over it. Sorry it didn't work out for ya.

Oh, btw...I had a franziskaner dunkelweizen yesterday...it tastes VERY similar to my roggenbier. I'm convinced they use FWH in their beers ;)
 
DeathBrewer said:
Oh, btw...I had a franziskaner dunkelweizen yesterday...it tastes VERY similar to my roggenbier. I'm convinced they use FWH in their beers ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's exactly what I thought too. Franzi dunkel was my inspiration to start brewing all these wheat/rye beers in the first place.....this Roggenbier (Death Rye, I named mine) does have a little extra something beyond the Franzi though.

for the record, I left my FWH in the whole time and mine turned out fantastic.
 
I used the recipe exactly as mentioned in post #1, scaled down to 3 galons. I did leave the FW hops in, as is my practice with FWH. I lost temp during mash, from 150 to 145 over the hour. I had a slightly stuck sparge, but it didn't mess my numbers. Boil was good. The yeast was 3rd generation. The only other thing that comes to mind is that it's young. It smelled interesting in the carboy, kind of like whiskey. But now the only aroma is the yeast. It could be that the drop in temp thined it out so much so that it lost a lot of it's character. That's about all I can figure.
 
what was the final gravity? that would be an indication that it was mashed too low. I mashed at 152-153 and did a decoction mash-out to 165. additionally, the rye seems to add tons of body in and of itself, almost too much body. I can't imagine using that much rye and having a thin beer.
 
I think part of the thinness is my carbonation level, about 2.7 vols. My OG was 1.046, and FG is 1.011, which were the exact numbers I was going for.
 
I'm brewing a 12 gallon batch of this tomorrow. First time brewing in weeks! I don't have any Tettnanger :( so I'm going to need a replacement. I was actually thinking fuggle, or maybe a mix of fuggle and saaz.

I'm doing a double-decoction for a beta-glucan (protein) rest @ 122°F, saccharification @ 150°F, and a mash-out @ 168°F. I'm only boiling for a few minutes on the decoction, so as not to create to many melanoidens...it's just for the temp raise.

There will be a get-together of 5-6 brews going on at my pad tomorrow. I plan to wake up early to get started on this one!
:mug:
 
Here is what came out on Saturday. I thought I had everything nailed down, but I shot short on my sparge water and I very lightly burned my second decoction (I was too worried about burning the chicken!) I can BARELY taste a little smokiness, so this may turn into a "smoked" roggenbier :p Still really good upon sampling.

So my efficiency was lower than usual (which is about 85%) at 74% and I didn't meet my volume.

I came out 2 degrees higher on my rests...hopefully it will be ok. I really think the protein rest worked...next time I might go with a three-step and do a true beta-glucan rest. I'm afraid with decoction it might get overly malty (not to mention smoked :cross:), so I will probably use my keg mash tun next time instead of the cooler to allow for infusion mashing.

I actually topped off with 1.5 gallons of water (original final volume was 9 gallons, far off from my estimated 12) to make 10.5 gallons. I plan to top off an additional half-gallon in each keg, making the total 11.5 gallons, which should give me an easy 10 gallon yield.

This sucker blew off for 2 days and is fermenting at 65°F with the help of ice packs. I guess it was a good thing I didn't have 12 gallons in there.

The run-off took 2 hours for the mash and over an hour for the boil. Damn rye shouldn't be so tasty.

Since Tettnanger is hard to come by, I used German Select for my first wort hop...hoping this will become the replacement...we'll see how good it is.

This will be the final product:

082209 Roggenbier

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

15-D German Wheat And Rye Beer, Roggenbier (German Rye Beer)

Min OG: 1.046 Max OG: 1.056
Min IBU: 10 Max IBU: 20
Min Clr: 14 Max Clr: 19 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 10.50 Wort Size (Gal): 10.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 21.50
Anticipated OG: 1.051 Plato: 12.62
Anticipated SRM: 14.5
Anticipated IBU: 17.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 12.35 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.043 SG 10.80 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
46.5 10.00 lbs. Rye Malt America 1.030 4
23.3 5.00 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
14.0 3.00 lbs. Vienna Malt Germany 1.037 3
9.3 2.00 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 1.037 8
4.7 1.00 lbs. CaraVienne Malt Belgium 1.034 22
1.2 0.25 lbs. Carafa II Germany 1.030 450
1.2 0.25 lbs. Chocolate Malt America 1.029 350

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. German Select Pellet Pellet 4.90 10.3 First WH
1.00 oz. German Hersbrucker Pellet Pellet 2.80 6.5 60 min.
1.00 oz. Saaz (Czech) Pellet Pellet 2.50 1.0 5 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 Oz Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)
2.00 Lbs Rice Hulls Other 15 Min.(mash)


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP300 Hefeweizen Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Multi Step

Grain Lbs: 21.50
Water Qts: 28.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 7.00 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.30 - Before Additional Infusions

Acid Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Protein Rest Temp : 124 Time: 30
Intermediate Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Saccharification Rest Temp : 152 Time: 75
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 15
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 120


Total Mash Volume Gal: 8.72 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
Click to expand...
 
Hey DB,
hate to be a thread-o-mancer.. but how did the changes work out for this brew?

Ive just switched over to AG (literally just got the cooler conversion bits in the post) and my first couple AGs will be a blonde and a apa. but after that i really want to make a roggen. it is by far my favorite style of beer, so ive started researching different recipes posted.

Currently im looking at this brew, flyangler's rabbit run, and a recipe from Palmer..

i was thinking of changing hops to Spalt and Tett and the yeast to WLP380 (ive used this before in a extract hefe and loved it) ...

any 'no you noob! not like that!' advice?
 
It tastes great! It's still a bit thick, tho. Once I get back to brewing I'm going to try the beta-glucan rest. The best one of these I've made so far was the original brew-in-a-bag batch.

All sounds good with your changes. Sounds like a Dunkelweizen I made a while back.
:mug:
 
I'm brewing a 5 gallon version of this for the World Cup competition in March. Getting grains tonight and brewing tomorrow...going to try the beta-glucan rest. Wish me luck.
:mug:
 
NECRO THREAD GO:

How did the beta-glucan rest work out? This recipe sounds fantastic and I'm definitely doing a roggenbier for my next batch- harvesting some WLP300 this weekend from a hef, but would love to avoid that rye-milkshake consistency if anyone's managed it. I BIAB and occasionally just direct-fire the mash to step it, pull the bag off the bottom.

Cheers!
 

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