Water Stablization Problem (A Newbie Question)

Hello; I first just starting partial mashing last week, and I think I made what maybe a big or small mistake. I added basically a whole packet of Epsom Salts to my mash water, and regular salt to my sparge water. The reason was that the PH papers weren't going to the desired PH level. I finally got to at least close to the ideal level.

I later read in my study guide that I should have used gypsum. Today, I put my brew in the carboy in hopes that filling it with water, as usual, might fix this problem. Is my brew doomed? If anybody can give me answers on how I might be able to save this brew, please, please let me know.

I have also another another issue, I am looking for gypsum online, and I can't seem to find it anywhere. Does anyone know a good brewing supply site, or maybe a substitute for gypsum? Again, thanks for any info you can give.

I'm not an expert at this but I believe it should be fine. Both epsom salt and gypsum can be used to lower PH. According to John Palmer's "How to Brew," gypsum is "Useful for adding calcium if the water is low in sulfate. Can be used to add sulfate "crispness" to the hop bitterness." and epson salt is "used to add sulfate "crispness" to the hop bitterness." As for where to find gypsum: Just about all homebrew supply sites such as AHS or Morebeer carry gypsum. It's usually under water modifiers or brewing additives. I'm not sure what the rule on this forum is on linking sites, but if you still can't find it, Private message me and I'll be happy to link you to a site.

Were you taking pH tests of your water or your mash? I wouldn't worry too much about the pH of the water. It is your mash pH that you should be testing. I wouldn't adjust your water until you know what you are trying to accomplish by doing it. Both Epsom Salt and Gypsum will make a slight change in pH but your grains will effect the mash pH the most.

celtic_man81 said:

I later read in my study guide that I should have used gypsum. Today, I put my brew in the carboy in hopes that filling it with water, as usual, might fix this problem. Is my brew doomed? If anybody can give me answers on how I might be able to save this brew, please, please let me know.

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I'm not quite understanding what you mean by filling the carboy with water today, if you brewed last week. What are you saying? (I'm sorry, I'm a bit thick at times).

Yooper Chick said:

I'm not quite understanding what you mean by filling the carboy with water today, if you brewed last week. What are you saying? (I'm sorry, I'm a bit thick at times).

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Last week, is when I made my brew. This week is when I did my secondary fermentation (putting my batch in the carboy). As you probably know, you have to fill the carboy to the neck (in order to make things easier to clean). My hope is that by filling it to the neck, it'll dilute the salt I put in the beer.

Oh, now I understand. I've never added water to my beer after fermentation started, and I don't think most people would. First, you're adding oxygen along with the water, and secondly, you're watering down your beer. You'll also screw up your s.g readings, since water reads 1.000. You could conceivably introduce an infection, too, if your water wasn't boiled.

Normally, you just siphon into the carboy (the clearing tank) to clear the beer a bit and to get it off the trub in the primary. You don't have to top up, because co2 will still be coming out of solution. Fermentation should be done before you rack to secondary. It's different than wine- wine has to be topped up but your beer would be fine for a couple of weeks below the neck of the carboy. It's still a good idea to reduce headspace by using the right size carboy (don't do a 3 gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon carboy, for example)

Howtobrew.com is an excellent resource that I refer to all the time, and that will help alot with some technique questions if they come up.

I'll try not to dis you but you need to understand the effects of anything you put into your brew if you want to be successful brewing homebrew.
A little gypsum sometimes helps with your hop flavors as BD said but don't over do it. A partial mash may not need much in the way of water treatment other than removing chlorine from your water.

Geez, I hope it didn't sound like I was insulting you- that is not what I intended at all. I was just concerned about adding water in the secondary and trying to explain that it wasn't a good idea.

I'm no chemist on water at all- but I think you're ok as far as water, unless your water is way too alkaline. Partial mashes aren't really too picky as far as water ph goes- I'd try it without adding anything at all first. You might be just fine the way you are!

Yooper Chick said:

Geez, I hope it didn't sound like I was insulting you

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No, not at all. I think it is way to alkaline-y though. Today, (when I was testing the specific gravity), I had a taste test, just too see if it was all right. It tasted really salty and bitter (probably from the Burton Salts). If I added some chalk, do you think it might stabillize the water? It's not too late is it? I think what might have happened was that I bought old PH strips and they gave me false readings. That is probably why it is too alkaline-y (if that is indeed the case). If it matters, I calculated the brew to be at about +/-5% alcohol.

Again, I'm not a chemist- but I think if you added chalk at this point, you'd have a chalky, salty, bitter beer- instead of just salty and bitter.

What kind of beer is it? Maybe some dryhopping would help.

For the next time, I'd just do a PM without any adjustments- your water may be fine as is.

I'm doing an IPA. What do you mean by "dry hopping"? Do you mean adding the hops straight to the batch, or the carboy?

If you're doing an IPA, dryhopping might help! I mean, take about an ounce of hops (cascade is my favorite) and put them in the carboy. If you're using pellets, they'll break up and sink. If you're using fresh, it's kind of a mess- you might want to use a bag. If your carboy is too full, though, that might be a problem.

After 3-4 days (or a week or two), you can siphon off the beer into your bottling bucket and bottle it. This makes a big difference in the flavor, aroma and perception of bitterness.

What was your recipe, by the way? We could all have more suggestions based on what you've already done.

I do have an original recipe, however, I had to fudge a few things. The brew supply shop I go to is limited in supplies. I can't remember exactly what I used, but I do remember it was close, and I had to drop a few things (hops and at least one type of grain). If you want to see the original recipe, here it is:

Beer: India Pale Ale(Batch 7) Style: India Pale Ale
Type: Extract w/grain Size: 30 liters
Color: 13 HCU (~9 SRM) Bitterness: 45 IBU
OG: 1.050 FG: 1.012
Alcohol: 5.0% v/v (3.9% w/w)

Grain:
1 lb. Belgian pale
4 lb. 2-row malt
0.51 lb. Vienna Malt
0.20 lb. Dextrin Malt

Boil: minutes SG 1.101 15 liters
6 lb. Amber dry malt extract

Hops:
3 oz. Columbia (10% AA, 60 min.)
1 oz. Fuggles (5% AA, 30 min.)
1 oz. Bramling Cross (6% AA, 10 min.)
1 oz. Challenger (aroma)


As I said, what I actually made is slightly different from this recipe.
Also, if you could give me a good online brewing store, that would be great. The current one I use (clickabrew.com), is fairly good, but it doesn't have a whole lot of variety in terms of hops and grains.

Thanks for the help so far.

My favorite sites are morebeer.com and austinhomebrew.com Both are excellent sources for every need you come across. IMO best places in terms of value. austin homebrew offeres 5.99 shipping on all orders, and morebeer offers free shipping on anything over 59.00. Shipping costs can make all the difference when I choose where to make my purchase. Hope that helps

Did you search the yellow pages for a local home brew supply? If not, morebeer.com is pretty good. I'm sure others will chime in with other sites that offer good deals. morebeer.com is good for hardware and extracts but if you are after AG then you might search around, google is your friend.

As far as note keeping, go spend a couple bucks and get yourself a good little note book and *always* take notes on each brew you do, this will help you with future brews. Take lots of notes on each of your brews!

Best of luck!

Cheers!

-- Trev

celtic_man81 said:

I added basically a whole packet of Epsom Salts to my mash water, ......and regular salt to my sparge water.

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Celtic Man, how much table salt? I would think this is the source of the salty taste. I don't know of a solution to remove it at this point.

I'm not quite sure how much table salt, however, it wasn't as much as the Epsom salts.
If worse comes to worse. I'll have to start over, but I'm just going to see if fermentation will help any. I might also take the dry hopping advise.