5 gallon oak barrels?

Does anyone know if these are made? If so where can they be purchased?
I'm interested in some abbey styles but most of them require 12-18 months of aging.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/default/catalogsearch/result/?q=barrel&x=0&y=0

These are made, though they tend to be expensive. It tends to be easier to use oak chips, cubes, spirals, etc.

MoreBeer has some good prices.

I purchased a 5 gallon barrel from http://www.oakbarrelsltd.com/20-liter-black-steel.html. It's a nice barrel, very well made and comes with a stand and spout with free shipping. I swelled and sanitized it and have an IIPA in there just for fun. I agree that oak chips are a lot easier but I'm enjoying the novelty of the cask.

I ordered it shortly after Christmas and got a personal phone call from the owner explaining that they were back ordered but that their Cooper was building as fast as possible. They could have easily sent an email but I very much appreciated their personable service. I will certainly order from them again.

I'd be interested to know how oaky things get from these barrels. I've heard that a 5 gallon barrel will have such a big ratio of surface area to volume that they impart a ton of oakiness to the beer.

I heard the same thing. I'll be tasting every day and will report back. So far, one day down and all I notice is the beer is damn good. I detect a little bit of oakiness. I have 5 gallons of the exact same beer sans oak and plan to do a blind taste test with friends to see which one they like better.

SERIOUSLY!!

2 lbs of toasted chips will OVER OAK the heck out of 5 gallons (from what has been posted on this site), yet a whole barrell, with 40-50 times more surface area exposure is OK???


(However it works, The Cask on a stand with a wooden tap is one of the top 5 coolest things on earth)

cheezydemon3 said:

SERIOUSLY!!

2 lbs of toasted chips will OVER OAK the heck out of 5 gallons (from what has been posted on this site), yet a whole barrell, with 40-50 times more surface area exposure is OK???

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Not even close! Chips have a MASSIVE exposed surface area - far, far more than a barrel.

how many times can you use a barrel?

cheezydemon3 said:

SERIOUSLY!!

2 lbs of toasted chips will OVER OAK the heck out of 5 gallons (from what has been posted on this site), yet a whole barrell, with 40-50 times more surface area exposure is OK???

(However it works, The Cask on a stand with a wooden tap is one of the top 5 coolest things on earth)

Click to expand...

2 pounds for how long though? It seems to me that increased surface area would only lead to a decrease in the length of time that the beer would need to sit. I'm no expert, but that's my guess. I just bought a bag of toasted oak chips and can't wait to experiment with them. Now because of you guys, I'm wanting this barrel. Even if I used it once and didn't like it, the pure novelty of it would be worth the money alone.

I've heard you can reuse 4 to 5 times. I'm guessing you can use it more, but it will take longer to get the desired oak flavor.

If it's like bourbon or sherry the casks are usually only used once then passed on for other uses. The wood starts to assume the flavor of whatever had been stored inside. For instance macallan single malt scotches are usually aged in sherry barrels to get a sweeter flavor.

You cant age long term in the small barrels. The air leakage is crazy high in the small ones. You can see a chart about half way down on this page: http://www2.parc.com/emdl/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml

For short term flavor enhancement, the small ones work though. Your still better off with cubes, chips etc.

Search around the forum for some posts by Brewtopia about barrel aged beers.

Check out http://tuthilltown.com/ They sell used oak whiskey barrels at pretty reasonable prices. You can also buy used oak staves if you want to keep costs down. It would be worth a trip since you're only in Philly.

Here's an update with my 5 gallon barrel experience. I had the IIPA in there for a week. It's oakey, but not too much. I kegged it because I wanted to avoid serious oxidation issues (I haven't noticed any). I won't know how good the beer turned out for another month or two as my IIPA requires more aging.

It's certainly a novelty. I hope to get additional use out of it but am a little weary of critters growing. My next batch may end up being a sour. Oak chips are a lot easier, that's for sure. If I buy another barrel it will probably be for wine. Rinsing it frequently after beer use is a tad annoying.

EKennett said:

Check out http://tuthilltown.com/ They sell used oak whiskey barrels at pretty reasonable prices. You can also buy used oak staves if you want to keep costs down. It would be worth a trip since you're only in Philly.

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They have 3, 5, and 9 gal barrels if I recall correctly. I stopped in there while I was visiting a friend (didn't know they sold barrels until I got there) and picked one up.

My 3 gal bourbon barrel was like $75, and is currently getting ready to be filled with a quad this weekend.

When I was hydrating the barrel, I was surprised at the amount of bourbon flavor was picked up by the water in 24 hours.

misterVT said:

Here's an update with my 5 gallon barrel experience. I had the IIPA in there for a week. It's oakey, but not too much. I kegged it because I wanted to avoid serious oxidation issues (I haven't noticed any). I won't know how good the beer turned out for another month or two as my IIPA requires more aging.

It's certainly a novelty. I hope to get additional use out of it but am a little weary of critters growing. My next batch may end up being a sour. Oak chips are a lot easier, that's for sure. If I buy another barrel it will probably be for wine. Rinsing it frequently after beer use is a tad annoying.

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I went ahead and ordered the 5 gallon barrel. I'm going to try an extended aging period and see if the oxidation thing truely makes a difference on a heavy beer.

try this guy. i just got my in and is awesome and the guy has great communication with you and he does custom art job too. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370089232755&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Totally agree with Mister. The oak flavor will diminish over time/uses.

I just bought a 5 gallon whiskey barrel from Adventures in Homebrewing and I've been aging a KBS clone in it for about ten days. Getting oakier every few days, but it's not quite where I want it. I've heard that even the it can be detrimental to over-oak (tastes gross), you can also just throw it into a plastic ferm/carboy or even bottle it and over time the oak flavor will diminish.

It does seem like the best way to go aging a sour (or anything, I suppose) in a long-term fermentation would be to age it for a year or so in a glass carboy, then put it in the barrel for just a few months (tasting for flavor along the way). You may also try plastic for the long term, as it's more breathable which (for better or for worse) is much more like wood than glass, in that sense. Michael Tonsmeire (Mad Fermentationist) knows a lot more concerning aging sours though...HERE.

Here's the math I did to figure out just how much surface area to volume the smaller (5 gallon) barrel has compared to the big (59.4 gallon) barrel (the answer is 4.22):

http://benhelms.com/5gallonchancho/

I'll re-post here with more findings as they come.

cheezydemon3 said:

SERIOUSLY!!

2 lbs of toasted chips will OVER OAK the heck out of 5 gallons (from what has been posted on this site), yet a whole barrell, with 40-50 times more surface area exposure is OK???

)

Click to expand...

For an "apples to apples" comparison you have to look not at the amount (weight/mass) of the wood but at the ratio of surface area to volume. Some good information about this has actually been done on the moonshine/distillation forums (not that I have any firsthand experience with that dark art).

A Bordeaux barrel holds 60 gallons, has a height of ~37.5 inches and a circumference of about 24 inches. This makes the surface area about 900 square inches (actually a bit more because of the shape) or ~15 square inches per gallon. Anything in that ballpark (let's say, 10-20 square inches per gallon should be fine).

By the same measure, a 5 gallon bucket has a surface area of 500 square inches (11" diameter x pi x 14.5" height), or 100 inches/gallon. I expect this would be WAY too much.

Oak chips, sticks, etc. have a high surface area because they are small (you may recall this from high school bio or chemistry: small pieces react faster because they have more surface area; that's why we chew our food before digesting). I haven't done the calculations for oak chips, cubes, etc. but I reckon we can trust empirical experience of the people who have tried it.

Can you guys update the thread with your experiences using those smaller oak barrels, now that some time has passed?

I goy my whisky and rum barrels from steelers77 here on hbt....they are great...I just pulled a sample of my oatmeal stout that has been in the whisky barrel for a week and it is YummY! check him out on here or at farmhousebrewingsupply.com

anyone know if these barrels can handle pressure.. for traditional cask ales? I think you would obviously have to replace the spigot with a keystone & replace the bung with a shive.

anyone ever used a small barrel for aging sour beers?