Thoughts on my hefe recipe?

So I am taking the plunge and doing my first AG on Sunday. I came up with what sounds to me like a basic, but tasty hefeweizen. Here is the recipe and I welcome any and all critiques to it.

Name: Mein Hefe
Type: All grain
Batch Size: 5 gallons
Sparge: Batch sparge

Ingredients:
6 lbs wheat malt (63% grain bill)
3 lbs pilsner malt (32% grain bill)
1/2 lb flaked wheat (5% grain bill)

.75 oz Fuggles @ 60 minutes
.5 oz Fuggles @ 15 minutes

1 packet Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

Brewing Directions:
Use a single infusion mash at 155 F and batch sparge for a boil volume of about 5 gallons. Continue as normal with the indicated hop schedule. Cool and add to fermenter and top off to 5 gallons if necessary. Pitch yeast and install fermenter lid with airlock.

Fermentation Directions:
Allow to ferment at 68-72 F for two weeks and until gravity has stabalized near the target FG. Bottle with 3/4 cup priming sugar. Bottle condition for two weeks at room temperature.

Statistics:
Calculated OG: 1.050
Calculated FG: 1.012
ABV: 4.8
IBU: 12
SRM: 5

Thanks for any input.

-AJ

I would add anywhere between a 1/2#-1# of Rice Hulls.

I would add rice hulls or use 6-row (personally I would use some rice hulls).

Also, if you mash at 155, I doubt you get down to 1.012. Not necessarily a bad thing, I don't mind residual sweetness in my hefes, but just so you know.

Lastly, and this is just my personal opinion, you cannot make the perfect hefe with a single infusion mash. You can, without a doubt, make a very good hefe, but in my experience, it always is missing that little extra something if you don't decoct.

That being said, I wouldn't recommend a decoction for your first AG. I did, and It took over 8 hours.

Thanks for the quick replies. What will the rice hulls doe for my beer?

cubbies, what mash temperature do you recommend? I'm not real big on extra sweetness, so I'd like to mash at the right temp to hit my FG.

Thanks.

-AJ

That looks good. I do have a few suggestions.

1) Make sure you have some rice hulls on hand. Rinse them off before adding them into the mash to rinse off the dust. These will really help your lautering.

2) You will likely want a larger boil volume than that. Depending on your boiling conditions you will likely boil off at least 1 gallon during the boil. This means you will want to start the boil with at least 7 gallons. Also, some people like to count 5.5 gallons into the fermenter so they end up with a full 5g finished product.

3) What kind of flavor profile are you going for? If you want a more clean flavor (less fruity/spicy) make a big starter culture with your yeast. A starter is not absolutely necessary with a beer this size, but no starter means more yeast growth in the fermenter which means more esters and phenols leading to more fruit and spice int he beer.

4) Do you want more clove or more banana? These are common Bavarian hefe flavors. 3068 throws massive banana flavors at higher fermentation temps. Are your stated temps ambient or actual fermentation temperature? I would highly suggest maintaining your ferment temp at or below 70 degrees. About that the ester profile gets a bit overbearing. The colder the temps the more that yeast will favor spicy phenol notes and the more subdued the banana will be. This yeast ferments rather vigorously, so fermentation temps can get as much as 10º above ambient.

That's all I can think of for now. Have fun, and good luck!

EDIT: I would mash at 152 if you want a little drier character.

Boerderij Kabouter said:

That looks good. I do have a few suggestions.

1) Make sure you have some rice hulls on hand. Rinse them off before adding them into the mash to rinse off the dust. These will really help your lautering.

2) You will likely want a larger boil volume than that. Depending on your boiling conditions you will likely boil off at least 1 gallon during the boil. This means you will want to start the boil with at least 7 gallons. Also, some people like to count 5.5 gallons into the fermenter so they end up with a full 5g finished product.

3) What kind of flavor profile are you going for? If you want a more clean flavor (less fruity/spicy) make a big starter culture with your yeast. A starter is not absolutely necessary with a beer this size, but no starter means more yeast growth in the fermenter which means more esters and phenols leading to more fruit and spice int he beer.

4) Do you want more clove or more banana? These are common Bavarian hefe flavors. 3068 throws massive banana flavors at higher fermentation temps. Are your stated temps ambient or actual fermentation temperature? I would highly suggest maintaining your ferment temp at or below 70 degrees. About that the ester profile gets a bit overbearing. The colder the temps the more that yeast will favor spicy phenol notes and the more subdued the banana will be. This yeast ferments rather vigorously, so fermentation temps can get as much as 10º above ambient.

That's all I can think of for now. Have fun, and good luck!

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On boil volume, I don't have access to a deep fryer, so I'm stuck doing it on my stove. I have only used one burner for my extract brews and 3 gallons was pushing it. So I figured I could do 5 gallons if I harness the power from all my burners. Another consideration is my brew pot size (8 gallons). Will I be in great danger of boilover if I boil 7 gallons in an 8 gallon pot?

For flavor profile, I would like to have a nice balance between spicy and banana, probably favoring the banana flavor, though. I was planning on doing a starter for this one, but not for those reasons, though it's good to know why I'm doing it now.

On fermentation temp, the Wyeast site says 64-75 F, so I figure 68-72 F would be a decent range, though I tend to keep my brews on the lower end of whatever temperature range I am using. The temperature would be fermenter temp, not ambient, btw.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions and I will be sure to have fun, good beer or not.

-AJ

If you have time, I highly suggesting getting some Fermcap-S drops. They are a surfactant that inhibits foam formation. Boil-overs are a thing of the past for me. I get a much better hard rolling boil and do not fear boil overs at all. Northern Brewer carries it.

i'd suggest you get rid of that 15 minute hop addition. you don't need it, it's untraditional, and IMO it takes away from the taste of the wheat.

i'd ferment in the low to mid 60s to get that nice clove flavor. you will still get plenty of banana at those temperatures, as well.

Cool, I will pick up some if I can find it at LHBS and order if I can't find it there.

DeathBrewer said:

i'd suggest you get rid of that 15 minute hop addition. you don't need it, it's untraditional, and IMO it takes away from the taste of the wheat.

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I was actually thinking about that when developing the recipe. I didn't know it was untraditional, but I knew that hefes generally have very low to no hop aroma/flavor. Thanks for teaching me to go with my instincts.

-AJ

+! on getting rid of the 15 min hop addition, save the hops for something else.

cubbies said:

That being said, I wouldn't recommend a decoction for your first AG. I did, and It took over 8 hours.

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How would you do this with a cooler mash tun?

thedude123 said:

How would you do this with a cooler mash tun?

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You can pull out a portion of the mash and boil it on a stove top.

Why do people have such problems with decoction? I've had no problems with the 3 that I've done.

it takes longer, but it's fun and not difficult. i think i'll do a decoction on my next hefeweizen

Do you need to do one for a Hefe?

not really....it may impart some flavor but it is absolutely NOT necessary.

Why Fuggles ? Why not something German ?

DeathBrewer said:

not really....it may impart some flavor but it is absolutely NOT necessary.

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Again, this is just my opinion and I not really looking to get this moved to the debate forum cross, but I think you can make a great hefe with a single infusion, but if you want to make a perfect hefe, you have to decoct it.

Mutilated1 said:

Why Fuggles ? Why not something German ?

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why not? fuggle is a wonderful hop for bittering hefeweizens...i've used it many times.

i just did one with homegrown fuggle

cubbies said:

Again, this is just my opinion and I not really looking to get this moved to the debate forum cross, but I think you can make a great hefe with a single infusion, but if you want to make a perfect hefe, you have to decoct it.

Click to expand...

there has been much argument about this. i have yet to see a side-by-side comparison. hell, maybe i should do one.

DeathBrewer said:

i'd suggest you get rid of that 15 minute hop addition. you don't need it, it's untraditional, and IMO it takes away from the taste of the wheat.

i'd ferment in the low to mid 60s to get that nice clove flavor. you will still get plenty of banana at those temperatures, as well.

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+1...no other hops other than bittering required.

DeathBrewer said:

there has been much argument about this. i have yet to see a side-by-side comparison. hell, maybe i should do one.

Click to expand...

Well, that is what actually did it for me. As I said earlier, my first was a decoction. It took me 8 hours, but it was a fantastic hefe. However, after that, I always did single infusion. They are fine, they might even be borderline great, but when I did a side by side with an authentic German Hefe, mine was certainly lacking. From my perception, the "little extra something" was not from an ingredient, so I assumed it was a process. Since decoction is "traditional" with a hefe, I figured that is what I was missing.

Ok, so I've considered all advice given and settled on this recipe, It's pushing the BJCP limits, but I'm not really concerned if it's slightly out of style.

6 lbs wheat malt (59% grain bill)
3 lbs pilsner malt (29% grain bill)
1/2 lb flaked wheat (5% grain bill)
1/2 lb rice hulls (5% grain bill)
Somehow this only adds up to 98%

.75 oz Fuggles @ 60 minutes

1 packet Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

This brings my stats to:

OG: 1.053
FG: 1.013
ABV: 5.1
IBUs: 9
SRM: 5

cubbies said:

Well, that is what actually did it for me. As I said earlier, my first was a decoction. It took me 8 hours, but it was a fantastic hefe. However, after that, I always did single infusion. They are fine, they might even be borderline great, but when I did a side by side with an authentic German Hefe, mine was certainly lacking. From my perception, the "little extra something" was not from an ingredient, so I assumed it was a process. Since decoction is "traditional" with a hefe, I figured that is what I was missing.

Click to expand...

you don't know what their process is, tho. the "authentic" commercial german weisse-bier may have NOT used a decocotion mash.

i'm talking about doing two batches and do a decoction on one of them. it's on in a few weeks. i love hefeweizens, so i have no problems with this experiment.

nukebrewer said:

Ok, so I've considered all advice given and settled on this recipe, It's pushing the BJCP limits, but I'm not really concerned if it's slightly out of style.

6 lbs wheat malt (59% grain bill)
3 lbs pilsner malt (29% grain bill)
1/2 lb flaked wheat (5% grain bill)
1/2 lb rice hulls (5% grain bill)
Somehow this only adds up to 98%

.75 oz Fuggles @ 60 minutes

1 packet Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

This brings my stats to:

OG: 1.053
FG: 1.013
ABV: 5.1
IBUs: 9
SRM: 5

Click to expand...

looks damn tasty. you'll thank yourself for using those rice hulls...wheat can be a PITA.

DeathBrewer said:

you don't know what their process is, tho. the "authentic" commercial german weisse-bier may have NOT used a decocotion mash.

i'm talking about doing two batches and do a decoction on one of them. it's on in a few weeks. i love hefeweizens, so i have no problems with this experiment.

Click to expand...

I'm more of a believer in a beta-glucan rest at 122-132 than having to do a decoction. Actually, I've even done a decoction to raise the temps to the saccharification rest.

As for decoctions, I thought that I might do this for my next Hefe. Building A Better Mashout Through Decoction - Maltose Falcons Home Brewing Society (Los Angeles Homebrewing)

Sorry to the OP for introducing decoctions into the mix.

The recipe looks good. Make sure you have a blow-off.

DeathBrewer said:

you don't know what their process is, tho. the "authentic" commercial german weisse-bier may have NOT used a decocotion mash.

i'm talking about doing two batches and do a decoction on one of them. it's on in a few weeks. i love hefeweizens, so i have no problems with this experiment.

Click to expand...

Agreed; however, I will certainly be decocting all of my hefe's from now on. As well, I will suggest that others do the same when they are looking for advice.

I look forward to your experiment. You should absolutely post pics of the process so we can all follow along!

DeathBrewer said:

looks damn tasty. you'll thank yourself for using those rice hulls...wheat can be a PITA.

Click to expand...

Thanks, hopefully it actually is as tasty as it sounds on paper. The only change I have to make is that the LHBS didn't have the Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen yeast, so I'll be using the WLP300 strain, which from looking at the White Labs website, does essentially the same thing as the Wyeast strain.

it's supposedly the same. i use the WLP300 for all of my pale hefeweizens. nice banana and clove.

DeathBrewer said:

it's supposedly the same. i use the WLP300 for all of my pale hefeweizens. nice banana and clove.

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Awesome, glad to hear it. Thanks.

I brewed a Hefe yesterday and did my first decoction mash. I got my best efficiency ever at 85%.