Off flavor three batches in a row.. so confused!

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kyle6286

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Dec 12, 2009
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Location
North Providence
Hello,

I've been brewing a little less than a year now. I've made a little less than 10 batches, but a good portion of them have been great. Lately, though, my last three batches have had the same off flavor that I can not identify. I even brought it to a LHBS and they couldn't identify it.

It started in the summer when I bought a nice kegerator system. The first batch had a weird taste that I never experienced. I attributed it to the high fermentation temps (maybe mid 70's). I decided to go with the swamp cooler method for the next batch to prevent the fluctuation of ferm temps. The swamp cooler worked well, but when I kegged it, it had the same taste. I then thought it was a flavor coming from either the keg (picked up from a local soda distributor) or the Co2 tank. I asked a bunch of people for any solutions and they all said the same thing - it's either a root beer keg or the Co2 gas isn't food-grade or something like that. Instead of spending more time and money trying to diagnose the problem, I impulsively sold everything for about what I paid. My reasoning behind this was that I was making great beer before the whole kegging system, so I assumed it was something in the kegging process that was the catalyst.

Fast forward a month, and I made a new batch and bottled it. I was very excited for this one. Finally, a drinkable beer. All my other bottled beers have been great, so I was really hoping to redeem myself for the previous two batches. I just opened my first bottle two weeks ago, after three weeks carbonating, and a few days in the fridge, and it has the same damn tatse. WTF!

I can't exactly describe the taste, but when I brought it to my LHBS, I was given the taste of metallic/band-aid. I looked through Palmer's description of off flavors, and these don't seem to fit. From looking on this forum at pictures of infections, I'm fairly confident that an infection isn't my issue. My sanitation process is very good, and I've never noticed anything odd during my fermentation. What's more confusing to me is I don't recall this taste at any off the kegging/bottling times. It's almost as if something is happening after leaving the primary. What I've also discovered is whatever is happening is masking my hop flavor significantly. My second to last batch, a Centennial Blonde, and my most recent, an Amarillo Pale, should definitely have a noticeable hop flavor. However, I can hardly detect it.

To hopefully answer some questions, all of my batches have been extract with speciality grains. I plain to go AG next summer, but if I can't figure out what's wrong, forget that idea. I've used tap water for all of my batches (even the good ones). I use oxiclean free for cleaning my equipment and then star san to sanitize. Thinking back, I really haven't changed my process much, if at all, when brewing. I wish this were an easy fix, but I just can't nail it down. I am probably going to bring a bottle to another LHBS this weekend (I'm told this guy is incredible and knows a ton about homebrewing).

Sorry for such a long post. I really would appreciate any ideas as to how to resolve this.
 
Oh yea, and after really analyzing my process, my next guess is the auto siphon. As I mentioned, I don't recall this taste when checking gravity readings and kegging/bottling. I'm wondering if, months ago, before I made these three batches, I either forgot to really clean the auto siphon or I just didn't clean it well enough and there's junk or residue on the bottom of the siphon. I already threw the siphon out and I plan on getting another one. I really hope this was the problem, but the only way I'll find out is to make a new batch I guess. Sigh
 
Post your local water report, you could be tasting chlorophenols. There could have been an adjustment to your water supply, without you seeing the notice.
 
Post your local water report, you could be tasting chlorophenols. There could have been an adjustment to your water supply, without you seeing the notice.

Not bragging at all, but I've read that Rhode Island has the second best water in the country (according to Providence Water). Of course, this may mean nothing at all when it comes to making beer. Is there an easy way to obtain this, or do I have to pay?
 
Never mind, I looked it up for you. You have a lower amount of chlorine in your water there in north providence, but it can still cause problems. Especially since it is allowed to fluctuate within a certain range. Filter your water through a carbon filter or drop a half a campden tablet in 5 gallons of brewing water to eliminate the chlorine and then try another batch. Make a small one if you want to just see if this is the issue, but band-aid matches chlorophenols (as well as stressed yeast)
 
I really hope this was the problem, but the only way I'll find out is to make a new batch I guess. Sigh

I'd suggest you make small batches until you figure out what's up. Maybe 1 gallon at a time?

I'd also bleach-bomb and/or boil everything to sanitize/sterilize as best you can.

Above all, though, hang in there. I had to toss 2 5-gal batches over the summer and it nearly drove me out of brewing b/c I was so disappointed by the wasted time & effort. Ended up being some nastiness in my CFC that took a LOT of cleaning/sanitizing to finally clear out. And nobody could really help me (it's hard to diagnose from a distance!), so I had to isolate every step in my process and test it out.

But now my beer is back making me happy, so keep the faith! :rockin:
 
Post your local water report, you could be tasting chlorophenols. There could have been an adjustment to your water supply, without you seeing the notice.

This is exactly what I was thinking. You have no control over the municipal water supply and they could have chosen to start adding more chlorine or other chemicals with out your knowledge. I would try brewing a batch from a different water supply and see if that corrects the issue.
 
Never mind, I looked it up for you. You have a lower amount of chlorine in your water there in north providence, but it can still cause problems. Especially since it is allowed to fluctuate within a certain range. Filter your water through a carbon filter or drop a half a campden tablet in 5 gallons of brewing water to eliminate the chlorine and then try another batch. Make a small one if you want to just see if this is the issue, but band-aid matches chlorophenols (as well as stressed yeast)

Wow, you got that quick. I couldn't find it on the site. Thank you for the advice. It could be the water, but my buddy who lives in the same town, who has brewed much less than me, just made a batch that tastes fine. He too uses tap water.
 
I'd suggest you make small batches until you figure out what's up. Maybe 1 gallon at a time?

I'd also bleach-bomb and/or boil everything to sanitize/sterilize as best you can.

Above all, though, hang in there. I had to toss 2 5-gal batches over the summer and it nearly drove me out of brewing b/c I was so disappointed by the wasted time & effort. Ended up being some nastiness in my CFC that took a LOT of cleaning/sanitizing to finally clear out. And nobody could really help me (it's hard to diagnose from a distance!), so I had to isolate every step in my process and test it out.

But now my beer is back making me happy, so keep the faith! :rockin:

Thanks for the support. I told my wife if this continues, I'm only going to make Edwort's Apfelwein. Of course, it was in the news this week that apple juice contains high levels of arsenic. :confused: Oh well.

I already dumped the two prior batches. I've read Revvy's thread about not dumping the beer, but I waited over a month and a half in the keg and no success.

In terms of isolating everything, I've tried to do it. I really have it narrowed down to the auto siphon. If it's not that, or the water, I'm SOL.

Is Oxi Clean free plus Star San not enough? If necessary, I can bleach everything that comes into contact with the wort after the boil.
 
I am extremely new to brewing, but in the wine industry band-aid on the palate and in the finish of a wine is usually associated with a brettanomyces infection.
 
I am extremely new to brewing, but in the wine industry band-aid on the palate and in the finish of a wine is usually associated with a brettanomyces infection.

I hope I'm describing the off flavor accurately lol. The first two batches were fermenting in a better bottle. Initially, I thought the better bottle was the issue because it was the first two times I used it. Even after cleaning/sanitizing it, I was worried. This last batch though, I used an ale pail that I used on all my previous batches that turned out fine. The only other thing that I can think of that contacted the wort after the boil was the auto-siphon and tubing. As I mentioned, I've since thrown these away as a precaution. Luckily, they're very cheap to replace.
 
I would try and make your next batch with Distilled water and see if you have the off taste. I only used Distilled water to make my beer. Why take the chance. I dont even drink regular tap water. Floride pesticides etc who wants that crap in their beer?
 
I was just thinking that since you use oxyclean,are you rinsing it really well? It could be coming from residue...
 
ok here is what i would do.

You brew extract so you will be making something that is malt forward, not too hoppy. You dont want the hops covering anything up. Also, make something not too high in SG. Around low 1.050's will be good, use a clean yeast (WLP 001 or equiv). So find a recipe you will enjoy if it turns out well. I've seen the phenolic flavors (medicinal/band-aid) really come through in English brown ales for example if you like those.

Now, you are going to make two batches on the same day. One is going to be 5 gallons and the other is going to be 1-2 gallons.

You will control the chlorine on the 5 gallon batch. Leave 5 gallons of water out for 24 hours to evaporate chlorine and then, use 1/2 a campden tablet in this water on brewday (you can find these campden tablets at your LHBS) to really ensure that this water is chlorine/chloramine free. If you have a charcoal filter already, you can just run the water through the charcoal filter and then use 1/2 the campden tablet. Do your normal yeast routine, ferment as normal (but try to keep fermentation temp within the recommended range).

Now for the 1-2 gallon batch, you will not do any water adjustment. The point of this batch will be to test your yeast health. You need to pitch just a half a vial of WL yeast. You will also oxygenate the hell out of this wort. Get this batch down to perfect pitching temperature, put it in the jug, and oxygenate. A lot. More than you think is necessary. Do everything you can to make sure this batch stays at optimal fermentation temperature for your yeast.

You can search this site for small batch suggestions. You can use 1 gallon glass jugs (found containing apple juice or sangria at whole food stores), food grade frosting buckets, small food grade buckets from restaurants, etc. There are a good number of threads on this.

Let both of these ferment out and at the end hopefully the 5 gallon batch will be good and the other one (with the chlorinated water) will have the off flavor. However if it is the other way around, you know it is a yeast issue and you will have to look into how to correctly oxygenate and ferment a 5 gallon batch.

If they both turn out great, well....it wont hurt to always take the precaution of treating the water, and giving the necessary care to your yeast. If they both still turn out bad, you have greatly narrowed down your problem.
 
I had a thread going back a few weeks ago since I had a flavour that I could not put my finger on. Frustrated the crap out of me.

First off, I keep pretty good notes on all of my batches, so if you don't already, start doing so now. I was able to sit down with my brew sheets and find the common links in the three bad batches.

I still am not 100% certain what the problem was, but my second and third bad batches used 'washed' yeast from the first bad batch. So, did I carry a bad yeast or a spoiled yeast through the other two? Possibly.

All three used Amarillo hops from the same supplier. Were they bad? I was not sure, but in a subsequent batch I thought I detected the same taste, but I think I was connecting the Amarillo taste in the good batch to the Am in the bad ones even though the problem was likely from something else.

Keep adding to the thread and the collective will hopefully cure your woes!

B
 
Hello,

I've been brewing a little less than a year now. I've made a little less than 10 batches, but a good portion of them have been great. Lately, though, my last three batches have had the same off flavor that I can not identify. I even brought it to a LHBS and they couldn't identify it.

It started in the summer when I bought a nice kegerator system. The first batch had a weird taste that I never experienced. I attributed it to the high fermentation temps (maybe mid 70's). I decided to go with the swamp cooler method for the next batch to prevent the fluctuation of ferm temps. The swamp cooler worked well, but when I kegged it, it had the same taste. I then thought it was a flavor coming from either the keg (picked up from a local soda distributor) or the Co2 tank. I asked a bunch of people for any solutions and they all said the same thing - it's either a root beer keg or the Co2 gas isn't food-grade or something like that. Instead of spending more time and money trying to diagnose the problem, I impulsively sold everything for about what I paid. My reasoning behind this was that I was making great beer before the whole kegging system, so I assumed it was something in the kegging process that was the catalyst.

Fast forward a month, and I made a new batch and bottled it. I was very excited for this one. Finally, a drinkable beer. All my other bottled beers have been great, so I was really hoping to redeem myself for the previous two batches. I just opened my first bottle two weeks ago, after three weeks carbonating, and a few days in the fridge, and it has the same damn tatse. WTF!

I can't exactly describe the taste, but when I brought it to my LHBS, I was given the taste of metallic/band-aid. I looked through Palmer's description of off flavors, and these don't seem to fit. From looking on this forum at pictures of infections, I'm fairly confident that an infection isn't my issue. My sanitation process is very good, and I've never noticed anything odd during my fermentation. What's more confusing to me is I don't recall this taste at any off the kegging/bottling times. It's almost as if something is happening after leaving the primary. What I've also discovered is whatever is happening is masking my hop flavor significantly. My second to last batch, a Centennial Blonde, and my most recent, an Amarillo Pale, should definitely have a noticeable hop flavor. However, I can hardly detect it.

To hopefully answer some questions, all of my batches have been extract with speciality grains. I plain to go AG next summer, but if I can't figure out what's wrong, forget that idea. I've used tap water for all of my batches (even the good ones). I use oxiclean free for cleaning my equipment and then star san to sanitize. Thinking back, I really haven't changed my process much, if at all, when brewing. I wish this were an easy fix, but I just can't nail it down. I am probably going to bring a bottle to another LHBS this weekend (I'm told this guy is incredible and knows a ton about homebrewing).

Sorry for such a long post. I really would appreciate any ideas as to how to resolve this.

I have been struggling with almost exactly the same problem as you've been having. I'm a partial boiler and with extract-only kits I brewed great beer, but the point at which I started partial mashes I started experiencing the same symptoms you described: not bad for the 1st week or so, then progressively worse. This pretty much matches the pattern of chlorophenols.

I've narrowed it down to topping off the fermenter with untreated water straight from the tap. Back when I just brewed BB kits, this was never a problem. It wasn't until I started using larger amounts of grain that it started happening to me. I've been advised to switch to bottled water but since I'm ridiculously cheap, I just bought some Campden tablets instead and just use tap water treated with Campden. Don't have any ready for consumption yet to verify I've solved the problem but I'm brewing a quick ale this weekend that ought to be drinkable by Christmas, so I'll know by then.

BTW, this is just my observation, but I've brewed a number of batches now with untreated tap water, and it seems the darker the beer, the more pronounced the phenols are. Oatmeal stout = nearly undrinkable. Irish red ale = noticeable, but not overbearing. Brown ale = barely noticeable.
 
I had a similar problem and I got a charcoal filter for my water and it resolved the problem.
 
I went to the local British pub a few weeks ago; had a positively undrinkable Hefewizen, Band-Aids was exactly the flavor! So anyway FWIW I feel your pain.

Your sanitation sounds top notch. Try the campden tabs; also try a different location for fermenting. You have been pitching different and fresh out of the package yeast for these four ruined beers yes?
 
Thanks for the suggestions Jwood. I appreciate it. I'm going to first take a bottle to another LHBS, where I've heard the owner is incredibly knowledgeable and can solve anything. If he can't pinpoint it, I'll try something similar to what you said.

I will ask him if he thinks the flavor can be caused from my water. I'm inclined to say it isn't, and it tastes more like what I would imagine an infection to taste like, even though my primary doesn't appear to contain an infection. I'm really hoping it's my siphon that had some residue in it that wasn't cleaned thoroughly, and it presents an infection in my bottles. No bottle bombs though.

Plumbob, yes, I have used all different kinds of yeast, although they have all been dry. One batch used US-05, and the other two batches used Nottingham. All have been rehydrated. As I mentioned earlier, the first bad batch had high fermentation temps (first beer made in the summer heat) and I resolved it in the later batches using a swamp cooler.
 
I have been getting that flavor a little lately. Is it possible the yeast in the bottom of the bottle causes it? Sometimes I will drink one of my beers and I don't have that twang...other times I do but if I let it sit in the glass it goes away a bit. I'm thinking that it is when I don't leave enough of the beer in the bottom of the bottle?
 
No,the yeast in the bottom of the bottle doesn't have any o2 getting to it to help the nasties breed.
It's most likely untreated water for steeping &/or mashing. That'll def give that bang aid flavor. (just made me think of these fiber glass patches the auto parts stores used to sell called "Bang Aids"!)lolz. Grains are more suseptable to this than extract malts. It's the wort production phase that benefits from good water make up. If the water isn't right,you'll know it.
 
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