Beer Vs Wine

I brew beer but i have a friend who is into wine and we always have discussions because he says beer is bum juice and I say Wine is bum juice, his logic is that beer is drank by people who cant afford wine and my logic is that is takes much more cleansing and science plus sanitizing to make a good brew and not just a bottle of juice with sugar and yeast for 14 days....I've rarely seen him sanitize his things and he makes fun of me sanitizing and taking hours to complete my brew lol I see more class in beer that in wine but to each its own...

With all that said I was wondering what others think?

Sounds like he's making some crap wine. Wine is generally a fancy drink that is aged, but without sanitation I doubt the swill it sounds like he is making would last.

Ive never tasted it but people that have say it taste like the stuff you buy at the wine stores for about $9-$10 a bottle....

There is a time and place for both. Wine and beer can both be delicious and terrible. I have had delicious home brewed beers, I have not had delicious homemade wine, or even anything close to as good as I can purchase. I think the main thing is that home brewers can get the same ingredients that commercial brewers use, with home made wine the fruit quality is much lower. Also most truly great wines are blends of fruit from different areas within a vineyard or appellations(sp) and/or different grapes. The long and short of it is that most wines are made from tasting dozens of post fermentation wine and blending the "winners" together to achieve different results to arrive at what the wine maker wants. The best wineries will even sell off the "reject" wine and keep only the 25% or less that they want for that years blend.


Id say if your friend drinks his own wine(which is likely schwill compared to what he could buy) he really isnt very into wine.

I love me an IPA all day every day and think its one of the pinnacles of mans beverage creation but for my last meal I'm eating steak and pasta(different courses) with a magnum of in your face red wine.

The beer vs. wine "debate" is as stupid as two people arguing which is better Italian food or Mexican food!! They both have their time and place.

I agree with the last post. Grape juice and sugar isn't fine wine. I think a lot of the skill in wine making is tasting and blending. More like the way sours are made in Belgium.

Low end home brewed beer is superior to low end home made wine.
High end home made wine is superior to high end home brewed beer.

Halbrust said:

Low end home brewed beer is superior to low end home made wine.
High end home made wine is superior to high end home brewed beer.

Click to expand...

Is that an opinion from more of a wine lover or beer lover?

I don't particularly care for either. Enjoy brewing both, and I'm trying to learn to appreciate both.

Commercially I see wine as superior to beer because often the special release fancy beers seem to try and emulate wine. Also the culture of wine is more refined than the culture of beer. I apply the same reasoning to the upper tier of home fermentors

At the bottom end of home brewing beer is still beer, whereas wine is hooch.

Phunhog said:

The beer vs. wine "debate" is as stupid as two people arguing which is better Italian food or Mexican food!! They both have their time and place.

Click to expand...

No discussion is ever stupid.. Its called human interactions...

Well, the thing with wine is that it is often the growing of the grapes that makes or breaks the wine. some vintages are awesome, some are good, some are mediocre. It has very little to do with the vintner, except for the acid adjustments and the blending. So wine, at its simplest, is easier than beer.

Brewing involves taking finished ingredients (malt) and then making the beer. So the skill of the brewer is the important thing here.

Neither are "hard". But both require attention to detail, careful measurements, perfect sanitation, and good basic skills.

I've had terrible wine, and I've had terrible beer.

I've had excellent wine, and I've had excellent beer.

I make both, and while winemaking is easier in many ways, brewing is more forgiving. The skill of the brewer is the thing- while wine depends so much on everything from rainfall to acid content which is totally out of control of the vintner. So, in that aspect winemaking is "harder".

Big_Cat said:

No discussion is ever stupid.. Its called human interactions...

Click to expand...

ok...stupid might be too harsh but really does it matter? It's all personal preference and no one is right and no one is wrong.

Phunhog said:

ok...stupid might be too harsh but really does it matter? It's all personal preference and no one is right and no one is wrong.

Click to expand...

You are right no one is right and no one is wrong but I wanted to see what others thought not if one was right or wrong. Just an opinion that's all..

Halbrust said:

I don't particularly care for either. Enjoy brewing both, and I'm trying to learn to appreciate both.

Commercially I see wine as superior to beer because often the special release fancy beers seem to try and emulate wine. Also the culture of wine is more refined than the culture of beer. I apply the same reasoning to the upper tier of home fermentors

At the bottom end of home brewing beer is still beer, whereas wine is hooch.

Click to expand...

If you don't enjoy either then I can't really see your opinion holding a ton of weight. I think that high end home brew is just as good as commercial beer. If your saying that high end commercial wine is better than high end commercial beer, then that is a different discussion.

Yooper said:

Well, the thing with wine is that it is often the growing of the grapes that makes or breaks the wine. some vintages are awesome, some are good, some are mediocre. It has very little to do with the vintner, except for the acid adjustments and the blending. So wine, at its simplest, is easier than beer.

Brewing involves taking finished ingredients (malt) and then making the beer. So the skill of the brewer is the important thing here.

Neither are "hard". But both require attention to detail, careful measurements, perfect sanitation, and good basic skills.

I've had terrible wine, and I've had terrible beer.

I've had excellent wine, and I've had excellent beer.

I make both, and while winemaking is easier in many ways, brewing is more forgiving. The skill of the brewer is the thing- while wine depends so much on everything from rainfall to acid content which is totally out of control of the vintner. So, in that aspect winemaking is "harder".

Click to expand...

My wife is from a red wine producing area of France and we've had this discussion too many times. My position is that on a homebrewing level the skills needed to make wine are much less than the skills involved in brewing beer. But on a commercial level, such as in her village, there is a huge difference between the quality of wines of neighboring vineyards so it has to be the skill of the vintner.
A major difference between making wine and beer is that as homebrewers we have access to pretty much the exact ingredients the commercial brewers use, home wine makers don't have that advantage.

Yooper said:

Well, the thing with wine is that it is often the growing of the grapes that makes or breaks the wine. some vintages are awesome, some are good, some are mediocre. It has very little to do with the vintner, except for the acid adjustments and the blending. So wine, at its simplest, is easier than beer.

Brewing involves taking finished ingredients (malt) and then making the beer. So the skill of the brewer is the important thing here.

Neither are "hard". But both require attention to detail, careful measurements, perfect sanitation, and good basic skills.

I've had terrible wine, and I've had terrible beer.

I've had excellent wine, and I've had excellent beer.

I make both, and while winemaking is easier in many ways, brewing is more forgiving. The skill of the brewer is the thing- while wine depends so much on everything from rainfall to acid content which is totally out of control of the vintner. So, in that aspect winemaking is "harder".

Click to expand...

The simplest things are always the hardest to do well. Less variables to execute and to be in the upper echelon they all need to be perfect. Plus with wine, I think it is inherently subtle(even the most robustly flavored have such incredible depth, at least the good stuff) whereas beer is mostly unsubtle especially so with American styles. Flaws can be covered up with robustness of beer ingredients.

Perhaps that's an important factor in the genesis of the "new" American beer style. I believe Vinnie at Russian River created Blind pig by doubling the ingredients of his home brew IPA recipe to cover flaws from the first time brewing on their new commercial system.

I personally don't like wine at all, and probably never will. Also, there is something undeniably effeminate about wine. I also don't like liquor. It all tastes bad, or slightly less bad.

Beer has such great variety, there's always a good one for the occasion. If you want something complex and sophisticated, reach for a dubbel, tripel, or old ale. There is nothing uncouth about any of those beers. Pure class.

Big_Cat said:

... his logic is that beer is drank by people who cant afford wine ...

Click to expand...

That's one of the dumbest things I've read on the Internet... which is actually quite impressive given the stupidity that runs around the Interwebs.

I own a vineyard and sell about 4 tons of wine grapes a year. I used to make wine and actually developed the port recipe used by many wineries using the frontenac grape. I used to make wine, now I just make beer. Here is what I have discovered: It doesn't matter. Drink what you like. I have had them all and it doesn't matter if it is 50 cent beer, $3 bottles of wine, $300 bottles of wine, or something in between. If it is what you like it is what you should be drinking. If you like red wine with fish, go for it. If you like beer with french food, go for it. They were all developed by monks over 1000 years ago and we are drinking both wine and beer today because sometimes we prefer beer, other times wine. If you are drinking something just because of peer pressure then you have a self esteem problem.

rexbanner said:

Also, there is something undeniably effeminate about wine.

Click to expand...

There is nothing effeminate about wine, but there is something diminutive about prejudice . . .



Both are great and each has it's time and place. Both can be made in a lazy manner resulting in a sub-par product. It's the individual who decides how complex and detailed the process will be in the crafting of their creation.

Anything less results in the classic internet meme of 'my kung-fu is better than your kung-fu'

I ain't never been referred to as a beero.

Lol my kung fu is better than your kung fu lol

rexbanner said:

Also, there is something undeniably effeminate about wine.

Click to expand...

If you derive your manhood from a beverage I think you've got bigger problems than us sissy male wine drinkers.

KNOTSANE said:

I ain't never been referred to as a beero.

Click to expand...

I have been called that on occasion

All this talk about Wine gives me heartburn. You know its funny im surrounded by vinyards here in the okanagan valley yet when i go to the liquor store its cheaper to get the stuff from australia or argentina. How the heck does that work? I have been meaning to go on some wine tours. Heck i can walk to some of them, perhaps next year. Ill bring tums.

snowtires said:

All this talk about Wine gives me heartburn. You know its funny im surrounded by vinyards here in the okanagan valley yet when i go to the liquor store its cheaper to get the stuff from australia or argentina. How the heck does that work? I have been meaning to go on some wine tours. Heck i can walk to some of them, perhaps next year. Ill bring tums.

Click to expand...

I highly recommend CedarCreek Estate Winery in Kelowna. Go on a nice sunny, summer day, have some carpaccio on the balcony with one of their reserves. Gorgeous view of Okanagan Lake over the grapes. But yeah, it's not cheap. If it makes you feel any better Argentine, Chilean and Australian wines are cheaper here than my local Oregon wines.

bbells said:

I own a vineyard and sell about 4 tons of wine grapes a year. I used to make wine and actually developed the port recipe used by many wineries using the frontenac grape. I used to make wine, now I just make beer. Here is what I have discovered: It doesn't matter. Drink what you like. I have had them all and it doesn't matter if it is 50 cent beer, $3 bottles of wine, $300 bottles of wine, or something in between. If it is what you like it is what you should be drinking. If you like red wine with fish, go for it. If you like beer with french food, go for it. They were all developed by monks over 1000 years ago and we are drinking both wine and beer today because sometimes we prefer beer, other times wine. If you are drinking something just because of peer pressure then you have a self esteem problem.

Click to expand...

Exactly. As I've heard stated: "A beer geek cares about what he drinks. A beer snob cares about what you drink."

For some reason people seem to get really hung up on other peoples' perception of what they themselves drink, and try to draw opinions on other people based upon what they drink. Sometimes I think people just don't have enough confidence in themselves and their taste...

My friends and coworkers all know that I'm into beer. And they know that if they have questions about beer, or are interested in recommendations, that I'm always available. And they also know that if we're out drinking at a bar and they order a Coors Light, I'm not going to give them crap over it, because of what you just said: "Drink what you like."

My observation is cheep hard liquor is "bum juice". I don't like wine so in my opinion everything but gin is better than wine. I still try a taste though when everyone at the table says something is fantastic. Don't get me wrong its not horrid, I just don't really like it. The only wine I have had that I thought was OK as far as wine goes for me seemed dry and not sweet, it was red any more than that I have no idea and have no burning need to know more.

UC-Davis Professor of Brewing Charles Bamforth wrote an interesting, but a bit biased toward beer, book called "Grape versus Grain." Definitely worth a read...

I enjoy wine because I think it tastes good, but generally can't tell much difference between the different styles. I'm generally of the mind that people should drink what they want. I enjoy drinking single malt Scotch, but I don't knock on someone who likes Johnny Walker or sips other liquors. Same thing with beer vs wine.

No one's ever called me effeminate for drinking a glass of Welch's grape juice...


If you care about what other people are drinking, you probably don't have enough things to care about in your own life. I'd suggest getting a cat. Mine is awesome, and it doesn't judge me for what I drink.

Tell your buddy to go to a beer dinner and see what he thinks of Bum Juice after that.

First one I ever went to, the head brewer from Bell's was there talking about the beer and the food pairings. He said "It used to be that the only thing you could pair with beer was pizza." Now there are lots of options. I recently went to a beer dinner where the pairing between the food and the beer were spectacular - a creamy butternut squash soup with veal sausage paired brilliantly with cask-conditioned Hopslam, grilled octopus and shellfish chorizo paired with Goose Island Sofie, and on and on.

If you derive your manhood from a beverage I think you've got bigger problems than us sissy male wine drinkers.

Click to expand...

Well lack of testicles isn't one of them. I get migraines and my car has an oil leak, though.

phenry said:

No one's ever called me effeminate for drinking a glass of Welch's grape juice...


If you care about what other people are drinking, you probably don't have enough things to care about in your own life. I'd suggest getting a cat. Mine is awesome, and it doesn't judge me for what I drink.

Click to expand...

Oh, you have a cat, too...

Big_Cat said:

Ive never tasted it but people that have say it taste like the stuff you buy at the wine stores for about $9-$10 a bottle....

Click to expand...

If this is what he is making, It's not high quality wine, guarantee the nose isn't present.

Neither are bum juice, and yet both are bum juice. I would consider Boone's Farm wine bum juice, I would also consider Ice House Lager bum juice. I would also consider Seagram's 7 in the same category.

Both can sit on both sides of the fence.

Lumpy16 said:

If you don't enjoy either then I can't really see your opinion holding a ton of weight. I think that high end home brew is just as good as commercial beer. If your saying that high end commercial wine is better than high end commercial beer, then that is a different discussion.

Click to expand...

Would you feel the same if I said I liked both?
I enjoy beer and wine equally, so my opinion is less biased.

Halbrust said:

Would you feel the same if I said I liked both?
I enjoy beer and wine equally, so my opinion is less biased.

Click to expand...

If you don't like either than I would assume that your not a good judge of what is good about beer and what is good about wine.

Not all wine comes from grapes, either.
Sugar and Juice is essentially EdWort's Apfelwein recipe.

Personally, having made both, Wine is not only easier to make but less complex than beer. If complexity determines the winner (as if there could be one), beer wins hands down. I've only made country wines, though.

Keep in mind that there's a lot of cross over in the fermented beverages, too! Cider and mead are also both wines.

I've done extract beers and juice kit wines. My experience is that beer's difficulty and time are up front and at bottling. Wine I can put a kit together in about 30 mins (so less time than the boil) BUT I'm going to have to rack and degas several times to get it to clear, so by the time I'm done, the work is about the same. Sanitation is perhaps a bit more in wine since I keep "poking" it...

I've also made Mead. But then as a Beer/Wine Geek, I'm all about drinking what I like and sharing the yummienss with you, (assuming you are in my area and I know you). If you don't like it, you don't have to drink it!

Well, wine just sucks. Why? Because I don't like it.

Oh, I can drink it, but there are very few varieties that I can appreciate and almost none that I would prefer over almost any beer.

This reminds me that I should sample the wine I made last fall and see if it's any better than it was in the spring. Even if I don't want to drink it, I hated to see those grapes rot on the vine!