Hop utilization

Got a question for yall. I live in CO at an elevation of roughly 8200 ft. My question is am I getting a lower hop utilization than someone at sea level does because of the lower temperature at boil? My water boils about 192 degrees F because of the difference in air pressure and I know that a vigorous boil is needed to isomerize the hop resins. Do any of you have an answer for me. My beers seem to be turning out great, but I want to see if I need to add more for a truly cloned recipe.
Thanks
-JT

The isomerization reaction is heat-driven and the rate of isomerization is affected by boiling temperature. In your case, you can obviously still have a vigorous boil. But you can't get the heat energy into the wort and the hop components. You can still get the isomerization to occur to the same degree as a sea-level brewer, its just that you will have to boil longer.

Jonny, are your beers as bitter as you want them?

Kai

Kaiser said:

Jonny, are your beers as bitter as you want them?

Kai

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Sometimes. I have only been boiling my bittering hops and adding my finishing hops during a one hour chill down. They are turning out good, but sometimes when I make a clone, it doesn't turn out exact when tasted side to side.

mabrungard said:

The isomerization reaction is heat-driven and the rate of isomerization is affected by boiling temperature. In your case, you can obviously still have a vigorous boil. But you can't get the heat energy into the wort and the hop components. You can still get the isomerization to occur to the same degree as a sea-level brewer, its just that you will have to boil longer.

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Thanks for the help. Any idea of how much longer? Maybe a formula I could use?

The Arrhenius formula would be the one to use but probably the rule of thumb will get you as good a result as the actual equation given that you don't know activation energies etc. The rule of thumb says that the rate of a reaction doubles for each 10 °C increase in temperature. As you are just about 10 °C shy of 100 °C it would thus seem that doubling the boiling time would get you about the same isomerization.

OTOH you could just use more hops which I guess is what you are doing now. Don't expect any 'clone' to come out dead on. Process and equipment have a lot to do with the nature of the finished product.

Another suggestion would be to wander into a brewpub (of which there are a few in CO per my observation) and ask them how they work around this. I'm just realizing that it never occurred to me to ask that obvious question.

ajdelange said:

The Arrhenius formula would be the one to use but probably the rule of thumb will get you as good a result as the actual equation given that you don't know activation energies etc. The rule of thumb says that the rate of a reaction doubles for each 10 °C increase in temperature. As you are just about 10 °C shy of 100 °C it would thus seem that doubling the boiling time would get you about the same isomerization.

OTOH you could just use more hops which I guess is what you are doing now. Don't expect any 'clone' to come out dead on. Process and equipment have a lot to do with the nature of the finished product.

Another suggestion would be to wander into a brewpub (of which there are a few in CO per my observation) and ask them how they work around this. I'm just realizing that it never occurred to me to ask that obvious question.

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Most of my beers are ones that I just put a recipe together and go with it. With most of the German styles I do, there isn't a super hoppy profile anyway. My issue is with west-coast style IPA's and such. If my options are double the boil or add more hops, does that mean I should double my hops? I usually add a little more than I'm supposed to in clones, just because I like to use whole ounces instead of keeping.28oz for another day. Great idea to just ask a prefessional brewer. I never thought of that. Most of them are down the hill, so their water boils at a higher temperature than at my house, but what a resource I have yet to tap into. I brewed yesterday and the wort only got up to 197F at a vigorous boil. I wonder if atmospheric pressure affects this as well. I hear you on not expecting my "clones" to be spot on. I am a stay at home dad with a lot of time to think about what I can do to make things better and figured that since y'all have been brewing longer than I have, it can't hurt to ask. Thanks to all for responding. I appreciate all your help.