Howto: Capture Wild Yeast

keesimps said:

Two more things:
1. Should I be concerned taking a gravity reading of either test batch and contaminating my hydrometer test cylinder?
2. Should I avoid tasting the 2.5 PH starter wort due to the fact of what I've got growing in it?

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You should always be concerned regarding contaminations, do you have a plastic measurement cylinder, or a glass one? Glass is easier to clean, you might want to use something like a tall pilsener glass or something like that if you think you will be better off.

I never worry so much, since what I put in that cylinder is not going anywhere but in my mouth or down the drain. Once in a while I clean the cylinder with NaOH (drain declogger, Lowes) which is extremely caustic and aggressive (beware) and totally cleans/sanitizes the cylinder. I am more cautious about my lines (hoses) and use a separate set for wild stuff.

Regarding the pH 2.5 beer, I do not think it will be dangerous per se to drink, just horrible tasting perhaps. If it tastes bad spit it out and wash your mouth with water, and decontaminate by drinking a beer .
It can take a while before a beer like that becomes palatable, but that is not set in stone.

jaapie said:

You should always be concerned regarding contaminations, do you have a plastic measurement cylinder, or a glass one? Glass is easier to clean, you might want to use something like a tall pilsener glass or something like that if you think you will be better off.

I never worry so much, since what I put in that cylinder is not going anywhere but in my mouth or down the drain. Once in a while I clean the cylinder with NaOH (drain declogger, Lowes) which is extremely caustic and aggressive (beware) and totally cleans/sanitizes the cylinder. I am more cautious about my lines (hoses) and use a separate set for wild stuff.

Regarding the pH 2.5 beer, I do not think it will be dangerous per se to drink, just horrible tasting perhaps. If it tastes bad spit it out and wash your mouth with water, and decontaminate by drinking a beer .
It can take a while before a beer like that becomes palatable, but that is not set in stone.

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I have a plastic test cylinder, which is why I was concerned, but will see what else I have that is glass and long and tall... I'll have a beer within arms reach to "decontaminate". Good idea!

update on mine - yeast was harvested in may, and fermentation was slow - went from 1.044 to 1.017 and finished at 1.009. still pretty sure it's brett, smells clean and a tad funky - pulled a sample to try and it's chilling a bit before i try it... i want to try it cold and let it warm up and see.

attenuation 79% and it's a 70-30 dme/wme mix with a tad of simcoe to bring it to 17 BU... should be able to let the yeast shine...

washed the yeast and bottled for future use - thinking just a few gallons of the same style wort as i can easily step up the washed yeast in one take for a 500ml starter.

i have to imagine the yeast gets pretty stressed being wild and it innoculates on a small scale - it'll be a nice control for a larger pitch later...

did not flocc too well - slightly hazy, but that could be the wheat too i suppose.

after chilling it cleared pretty well - tastes like a wheat made with brett (no doubt it's brett - the funky smell lessened quite a bit... not the greatest beer by any means, but a fun experiment for sure - it'll get bottled this week at some point.

i'll keep the yeast alive for giggles and grins and will try to catch more when the grapes ripen out here and see if i can get something different...

i think if i did an all grain with this yeast, maris, special b and a little crystal hopped with saaz or hallertau i could get something fun and unique.

My second and third wild capture experiments have yielded what appear to be mold rafts.

It might be hard to tell from these pics, but these pads are pretty hearty; the bottom one is at least 1 cm thick.

I have captured some wild yeast! My girlfriend came back from her parents' house in the country and brought back one good jar of the three I left out. I made a small starter just now, so we'll see if it's viable.

I'm excited about this. It smells like a belgian strain, but with about 10-15% more funk. I'll keep you up to date as this develops.

Does anyone have a technique to remove souring bugs from a sample with captured wild yeast? I finally got one strain that tastes promising, however the sample is crazy sour.

Nanannan said:

Does anyone have a technique to remove souring bugs from a sample with captured wild yeast? I finally got one strain that tastes promising, however the sample is crazy sour.

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Do you have access to CERN?

Alright, I'll rephrase; does anyone know a technique for killing off the souring bugs without killing of the yeast so that when culturing the sample further I will have the yeast but not the bugs?

Nanannan said:

Alright, I'll rephrase; does anyone know a technique for killing off the souring bugs without killing of the yeast so that when culturing the sample further I will have the yeast but not the bugs?

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Hoppy wort helps. Not sure about brett though.

dcHokie said:

My second and third wild capture experiments have yielded what appear to be mold rafts.

It might be hard to tell from these pics, but these pads are pretty hearty; the bottom one is at least 1 cm thick.

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Looks to me like you have a vinegar mother there....

Hoppy wort helps. Not sure about brett though.

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Thanks, I'll give it a try, hopefully its no brett in there. Considering its only been fermenting for a two-three weeks I think its some bacilus souring it.

Nanannan said:

Does anyone have a technique to remove souring bugs from a sample with captured wild yeast? I finally got one strain that tastes promising, however the sample is crazy sour.

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Most definitely! The easiest is to wash your yeast/bacteria slurry in an acid. I've never done it but there is a Brew Strong episode about yeast washing on 8/10/2009.

The harder way, but maybe the right way for what you want to do, is to isolate your yeast on a plate. Buy a pressure cooker, some petri dishes, and some agar. The cooker is by far the most expensive part. Make up malt extract plates, dilute a drop of your slurry into something like a pint of sterile water, and then put a drop of the dilution onto the plate and spread it around with a sterilized spoon. Let it grow for a few days, and you'll recognize yeast as creamy-looking colonies, while the bacteria will be shiny and either translucent or colored. Now you need to pick all the creamy colonies you can and grow them up in some sterile wort. Hopefully it will taste like all the good parts of your wild yeast experiment and none of the sour!

drummstikk said:

Most definitely! The easiest is to wash your yeast/bacteria slurry in an acid. I've never done it but there is a Brew Strong episode about yeast washing on 8/10/2009.

The harder way, but maybe the right way for what you want to do, is to isolate your yeast on a plate. Buy a pressure cooker, some petri dishes, and some agar. The cooker is by far the most expensive part. Make up malt extract plates, dilute a drop of your slurry into something like a pint of sterile water, and then put a drop of the dilution onto the plate and spread it around with a sterilized spoon. Let it grow for a few days, and you'll recognize yeast as creamy-looking colonies, while the bacteria will be shiny and either translucent or colored. Now you need to pick all the creamy colonies you can and grow them up in some sterile wort. Hopefully it will taste like all the good parts of your wild yeast experiment and none of the sour!

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Exactly what I needed, thanks.

Darn, that Brewstrong episode may not be what you want. Listened to it again last night, and it's about storing yeast, not really about purifying. Let us know if you find out more about acid washing. I'm interested in trying it.

No, it gave ph-range and time to wash away bacteria but not the yeast, so it really was what i wanted .

drummstikk said:

Darn, that Brewstrong episode may not be what you want. Listened to it again last night, and it's about storing yeast, not really about purifying. Let us know if you find out more about acid washing. I'm interested in trying it.

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In the beginning of the episode they say wash in ph 3.somethingorother for 20 mins. Will kill most of the bugs, will stress but not kill the yeast.

For me that is on hold atm though as I got a plastic 1 1/2l bottle elderflower cordial that has started to spontaniously ferment in a friends refrigerator. The refrigerator was at 5C (41F) so thats really interessting. The friend does not brew, nor bake, so the risk of it being a commercial yeast is pretty low. I guess it might be a CO2producing bug?

Either way, I have poured half of it in a carboy and am fermenting a elderlower-wheat beer from that. The rest is in my fridge, I am hoping it will ferment out there.

Update on the wild elderflower-wheat. Been fermenting for a week now, day 2 and 3 showed intense fermenting after that it slowed and now stopped. Took a gravity reading and gravity is 42... Taste is watery elderflower, with, unfortunately, just a hint of cooked vegetables.

Any idea on how to proceed with this?

EDIT: In the end I decided to pour of the yeast that had dropped to the bottom. I will pitch this yeast into a less extreme brew and see what it will do under ideal circumstances (or as ideal as i can make them). I will pitch champagne yeast into the current brew and see if I can get it going again.

Well, the original brews finally started fermenting again thanks to the champagne yeast. Will brew a Kölsch today, one set with whitelabs kölsch yeast, one smaller batch with the same mash but with the wild yeast, wish me luck .

Dme??

underground and under the influence

Dried Malt Extract

shafferpilot said:

Looks to me like you have a vinegar mother there....

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SCOBY son!!! I hope you like Kombucha

my buddies parents live out in the country and keep bees on their property. Today we set 5 mason jars of 1.020 wort in different areas around the yard. Totally forgot to take pics, but here are the locations..
1 under some boysenberry vines
2 in the general area around the bee boxes
1 next to some cherry tomatoes
1 under a passion vine

I'll definitely include pictures when we go back out to see whats up with them..

Ashton,
you should also boil and cool some water and then dissolve some raw honey into it and let that naturally ferment, that will usually get some nice wild yeasts going, especially if you might be able to take some fresh honeycomb straight from a hive and use it.

I can absolutely do that, they have around 8 hives and basically can't get rid of the stuff fast enough! I'll try it out and include pictures/info with interesting updates from the original yeast traps. Thanks for the suggestion!

Put a nice, clean section of somewhat full honeycomb, maybe a piece 3 inches square or so, into about a quart of sterile water at about 90 degrees so the honey can slowly reconstitute itself and the microbes won't be stressed.

Ok so after reading through this thread I was intrigued by the concept of catching and/or harvesting my own little yeast beasties... As I have access to some muscadines on the vine I was going to do the plate approach to isolate the strains for possible apfelwine-ish applications, wine maybe, and if I'm lucky beer.

That said... I have dme and agar and if absolutely necessary I will go with micro jars (0.5-1 cup perhaps I guess they are?). That said I was looking for actual plates if possible and unfortunately waiting for shipping isn't an option as the window to get the grapes is small at this point. That said does anyone have any idea where I might can find such a thing? As I live right beside the state capital there are several colleges larger than cc's but smaller than the biggest in the state. It seems like there would be a supply type place bit I'm not having luck contacting the colleges and wondered if anyone had alternative suggestions of places to start.

If the above falls through... Can anyone think of any problems with using the super tiny mason jars stored upside down except for the lack of visibility? Any other possible substitute? Thought about hitting up my mother who's a nurse at a diabetics center but that of course requires me to call my mother.....

Accidic said:

That said... I have dme and agar and if absolutely necessary I will go with micro jars (0.5-1 cup perhaps I guess they are?). That said I was looking for actual plates if possible and unfortunately waiting for shipping isn't an option as the window to get the grapes is small at this point. That said does anyone have any idea where I might can find such a thing? As I live right beside the state capital there are several colleges larger than cc's but smaller than the biggest in the state. It seems like there would be a supply type place bit I'm not having luck contacting the colleges and wondered if anyone had alternative suggestions of places to start.

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When I was a kid, we'd always order stuff like that from Edmund Scientific, which caters to K-12 education and hobbyists. Amazon might be a good bet, too.

Accidic said:

Ok so after reading through this thread I was intrigued by the concept of catching and/or harvesting my own little yeast beasties... As I have access to some muscadines on the vine I was going to do the plate approach to isolate the strains for possible apfelwine-ish applications, wine maybe, and if I'm lucky beer.

That said... I have dme and agar and if absolutely necessary I will go with micro jars (0.5-1 cup perhaps I guess they are?). That said I was looking for actual plates if possible and unfortunately waiting for shipping isn't an option as the window to get the grapes is small at this point. That said does anyone have any idea where I might can find such a thing? As I live right beside the state capital there are several colleges larger than cc's but smaller than the biggest in the state. It seems like there would be a supply type place bit I'm not having luck contacting the colleges and wondered if anyone had alternative suggestions of places to start.

If the above falls through... Can anyone think of any problems with using the super tiny mason jars stored upside down except for the lack of visibility? Any other possible substitute? Thought about hitting up my mother who's a nurse at a diabetics center but that of course requires me to call my mother.....

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I've done this with mushroom cultures before. The way I do it is have about 1/2-3/4 inches of media on the bottom and a hole in the top stuffed with polyfill for gas exchange. Those jars work nice in a pinch .


-Kingboomer

Just want to say, love this thread. I'm pretty sure ive read through it three times now haha. One question i had, and maybe i just missed it along the way. I got a bunch of plates,t but is it possible for enterobacter to start a colony on there and not have it get taken over by sacc because they would all be in different colonies? i'll still be tryin the project anyways, just trying to get all the information i can, and sorry if this question has already been answered, been a crazy busy weekend down here at the brew shop. Thanks guys, will keep posting

I got the impression you could separate out a lot of them by plating, replating, repeated one colony at a time til you isolate what you want and alternatively the drop division method to make arguably a pure culture given enough divisions/dilutions.

Figured i'd throw it out there, i'll throw up some pictures once i get something going

like many before me, i'm very good at catching mold, even with hopped extract. i dont even want to open the plates haha. have to try again

Alright. I'm too excited to give this a shot than to wait until I have time to go search for some agar in the Asian Market (this I plan on doing as soon as I can...I also can't wait to break out my lab coat and goggles). Plus..I recently ended up with an extra 3 quarts (or so) of wort from a batch of beer that was supposed to be 5.25g of 1.058 or so, but ended up being 6g of 1.050. Anyways, I've pulled the extra from storage in the freezer to dilute by half, and add some acid to put in jars outside.

First question: I have Citric acid powder at home (who knows how old it is...) Does anyone have any hypotheses as to how much I should add to get a pH between 3 and 4? I assume the wort is already slightly acidic, but since I'm lacking in pH paper...I'm sort of taking a stab in the dark here.

Second question: Can any of the first testers comment on reusing their wild yeast? KingBrianI had success...but did you either a. reuse the yeast or b. try the method again? That question can apply to anyone with or without success. The more details this thread records the better.

Also, has anyone saved an experimental batch of starter or small test batch which was thought to end up being terrible, but ended up delicious? The way I look at it, if you don't get mold (but get yeast and probably bacteria), you might as well go with it for a while and see how it tastes. Most bacteria are good (or at least non pathogenic) and therefore could lend some interesting characteristics to beer. Don't get me started on how silly most anti-bacterial tendencies are, but honestly (as one poster pointed out) if bad bacteria easily found its way into good tasting beer, people would have died out a long time ago.

I didn't want to make a new thread just for this, but I thought you'd all be interested to know that I have a friend called "Brett Hoppenbrouwer". And no, I am not kidding.

i dont know about adjusting ph levels, but i can tell you that mold will grow in hopped wort. It was kind of cool though, i put out three plates, and grew three different types of mold. And they were all disgustingly unique in their own ways

no_borders said:

i dont know about adjusting ph levels, but i can tell you that mold will grow in hopped wort. It was kind of cool though, i put out three plates, and grew three different types of mold. And they were all disgustingly unique in their own ways

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Adjusting pH definitely works. I've just isolated a collection of local microorganisms myself. When mold colonies started to appear, I carefully removed them with a sanitized toothpick and added lemon juice the wort. Fermentation continued while mold growth was inhibited.

I recently decided to try catching wild yeast based on this thread. I only had a very little amount of DME on hand, which gave me a very low OG. After 1 week though I've seen growth, and the jar smells yeasty. I'll let it sit another week, but what's the best way to help the yeast grow. Should I make a starter after the 2 weeks? It's only about a cup of wort, what size starter should I make? If I don't plan on using this yeast right away is there a way to save it? Washing it?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

A little late reply but ok.

storunner13 said:

First question: I have Citric acid powder at home (who knows how old it is...) Does anyone have any hypotheses as to how much I should add to get a pH between 3 and 4? I assume the wort is already slightly acidic, but since I'm lacking in pH paper...I'm sort of taking a stab in the dark here.

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http://braukaiser.com/lifetype2/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=138&blogId=1
and
pH Calculator | Support will sort of explain what to do with citric acid. I glanced through both websites. Depends a lot on the buffer capacity of the wort. Seems a tiny bit of citric acid should suffice to push it down. Making your own indicator with red cabbage might be an option as well, although I don't know if this is very practical..lol.
Red Cabbage pH Indicator - How to Make Red Cabbage pH Indicator

Second question: Can any of the first testers comment on reusing their wild yeast? KingBrianI had success...but did you either a. reuse the yeast or b. try the method again? That question can apply to anyone with or without success. The more details this thread records the better.

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I did reuse them. I isolated 2 wild yeasts in 2009, and kept them in slants/plates. Got 5 new ones this year and brewed with them, and brewed with the older ones, side by side. Same wort, different yeasts. Very interesting outcome. The two yeasts from 2009 were much more palatable. I am lucky, I work in a lab for a living and work with microbes...so I sequenced the strains, and the ones from 2009 were both good old Saccharomyces (although very different taste profile) and the 2011 ones were all Pichia fermentants. All much more similar to one other, but still miles different from the others.
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Also, has anyone saved an experimental batch of starter or small test batch which was thought to end up being terrible, but ended up delicious? The way I look at it, if you don't get mold (but get yeast and probably bacteria), you might as well go with it for a while and see how it tastes. Most bacteria are good (or at least non pathogenic) and therefore could lend some interesting characteristics to beer. Don't get me started on how silly most anti-bacterial tendencies are, but honestly (as one poster pointed out) if bad bacteria easily found its way into good tasting beer, people would have died out a long time ago.

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For wild yeast beers and spontaneous stuff, one needs to be patient. From your question I gather you mean with experimental batch a batch fermenting with a consortium of something from the sky so to speak?

True spontaneous fermentation takes a long time, and the population changes over years. Some organisms only become abundant after a year or so. See Brewing Flemish Red Ale, by Raj B. Apte Raj his fermentation graphs, colony forming units of each organism vs time.

I agree you might as well wait. It might be just a spoiled horrible batch, but it might also turn interesting and nice. You can always dump it later, if it is not in the way..