has anyone committed this siphon cardinal sin

This AM, I am siphon-challenged. I normally do not have plms starting a siphon.

Today was different. Racking a Red Ale to secondary..normally I don't have a plme, byr I kept losing the siphon when starting, so...

I took the end of the hose and sucked on it until we had a flow.

Now, I am sure the beer will come out alright, but curious if anyone else has done this (and worried) ..

Yes... people have done this. It is not recommended as your mouth is just FULL of germs and bacteria. May not be a problem with this batch, but would not do this on a regular basis.

If you have a problem starting a siphon, try getting an auto-siphon. Also, the best way to start a siphon is to have a bucket of sanitizer near by and dunk the entire hose in the sanitizer. Make sure that the hose is actually full of water and then cover both ends with your thumb. Then, just dip one end in the beer and release the other end. I would recommend having a smaller bucket around to allow the sanitizer left in the siphon hose to go into that bucket, not the fermenter.

I've heard that siphoning after gargling with grain spirits is recommended. Never tried it though.

Good excuse to swish your mouth with some Russian holy water? (vodka)

I've heard someone recommend this but I've never tried it myself since I have an autosiphon.

Meaty portion, you type fast.

Great minds thinking alike and all that.

rsmith179 said:

Yes... people have done this. It is not recommended as your mouth is just FULL of germs and bacteria. May not be a problem with this batch, but would not do this on a regular basis.

Make sure that the hose is actually full of water and then cover both ends with your thumb. Then, just dip one end in the beer and release the other end. I would recommend having a smaller bucket around to allow the sanitizer left in the siphon hose to go into that bucket, not the fermenter.

Click to expand...

I think what is cramping my method is the extra-long SS racking cane I rec'd ..before I was using just tubing, and dumping first part to empty bucket, then staringht to secondary or keg once siphon was going..the cane is handy but seems to make this task more of a chore.

I think I will try a 2 port carboy cap with filtered tube to blow into..

kappclark said:

I think I will try a 2 port carboy cap with filtered tube to blow into..

Click to expand...

I know lot's of folks do this, but I wouldn't risk it. If you don't want an autosiphon (which I love, BTW), you can just

1. fill your siphon tubing with water,
2. cap both ends with your sanitized hands,
3. stick one end in your beer, the other end LOWER than your beer.

The siphon will start on its own. I used to do this a lot, without problem. Maybe it is more risky than the blow, don't know. But I have heard the mouth is one SERIOUS source of bacteria, and I don't get it near any beer that I'm going to continue fermenting.

[edit] I see this was mostly redundant with an early post... sorry

passedpawn said:

I know lot's of folks do this, but I wouldn't risk it. If you don't want an autosiphon (which I love, BTW), you can just

1. fill your siphon tubing with water,
2. cap both ends with your sanitized hands,
3. stick one end in your beer, the other end LOWER than your beer.

The siphon will start on its own. I used to do this a lot, without problem. Maybe it is more risky than the blow, don't know. But I have heard the mouth is one SERIOUS source of bacteria, and I don't get it near any beer that I'm going to continue fermenting.

Click to expand...

I did this all the time before I got an autospihon. I just had sanatized hands, and used tapwater...

I've used my mouth to start a siphon a couple of times where I just got lazy and the beer turned out fine.

It probably had a higher likelihood of getting contaminated, but the chances still aren't that large.

Yes, but only after swishing some fine 12 year old Glennlivet around for 30 seconds and swallowing.

I sanitize a plastic turkey baster. Then I stick the small tip of the turkey baster inside the sanitized siphon hose and suck on the other end. Once enough liquid has filled the siphon hose, I remove the turkey baster and proceed to rack.

Cheap, easy, and no contamination risk (unless you drool when sucking).

the only method I've ever used it my mouth. I try to just put my lips on the tube(uh...)

30 plus batches of beer, no problems. I would like to get an auto siphon though

I used my auto siphon last night. Had no problem starting it but when I got to the last 25% it stopped working. I tried to start it again but it put bubbles(o2)in the bottling bucket, so I stopped. Not sure what the problem was? I ended leaving about 3-4 inches of beer in the primary, is this normal?
I think next time I will try putting the bottling bucket much lower than the carboy that I am siphoning from. This time it was only about a foot lower. Any suggestions would be great!

Sorry for the semi-thread jack!

I usually put my fermenter on the table, and bottling bucket on the floor when I siphon.

However, recently I have been doing some small (1 gallon) batches, and bottling those by racking from fermenter to a pitcher, then from pitcher to bottles. For those, I have been putting the fermenter next to the kitchen sink, and the pitcher down in the sink, maybe a foot or so lower; just enough so that the bottom of the fermenter is over the top of where the liquid will fill to on the pitcher. I haven't noticed any appreciable difference in the process, except that it has been easier for me to fill up the siphon with sanitized water, put the racking cane into the fermenter, and then just let the the water in the siphon drain off into the sink and fill up with beer before I put it in the pitcher.

Like prij, I always suck on the siphon hose to start it. I've brewed close to 150 batches of beer and none have gone funky after siphoning. ( I have had 2 that went funky, but both times it happened in primary, before any siphoning occurred, on home cultured yeast I tried to extend too many generations -- lesson learned).

As EdWord & others said, gargle with the spirit of choice. I use the cheapa$$ vodka that I put in my airlock and that my father-in-law likes to drink. (Of course, I spit it out.)

I've suck-started many siphons in my time. A bit of broken racking cane and a short length of tubing make a nice mouthpiece that can be used to suck-start a siphon, then removed prior to the beer getting to the end of the tubing.

Anymore, I use carboy caps, which make starting a siphon MUCH easier. Highly recommended.

There is no need to suck your hose.

Step 1: Dip your hands in Starsan
Step 2: Make a loose fist around your hose, with the end of the hose at about your second finger inside your fist.
Step 3: Suck your fist hole
Step 4: Stick hose in target vessel before beer gets to the end.

No equipment required. No mouth on hose action.

auto siphon is 12.95 at lhbs. i would not brew without it.

sometimes breakage happens. broke end of an old racking cane through the side carboy cap and blow. very little chance of anything going bad since your not drooling into the carboy.

before that i would take starsan fill the tube and racking cane and then use the tubing clamps to clamp the tube side. hold the cane upwards and then tilt into the bucket or carboy. release the clamp and let er flow into a waste pan. when beer is flowing clamp and move to keg or bucket and watch er run. tilting the carboy or bucket at a 30 or 45* also helps get the last drop out. just make sure you do it gently and that you have it secured so it will not fall

EdWort said:

Yes, but only after swishing some fine 12 year old Glennlivet around for 30 seconds and swallowing.

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I like the way you think, sir!

pen25 said:

sometimes breakage happens. broke end of an old racking cane through the side carboy cap and blow. very little chance of anything going bad since your not drooling into the carboy.

Click to expand...

Blowing will send saliva into the carboy, complete with all forms of bacteria. It's not much different than drooling into it.

jpc said:

Blowing will send saliva into the carboy, complete with all forms of bacteria. It's not much different than drooling into it.

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Can you place some kind of air filter before the carboy cap ?

well considering several do ave have blown into there carboy without issue i'd say the risk is minimal. its a very small portion that would happen to be induced just as bad as going from carboy to bottling bucket. you still have nasties blowing in the air and that includes your breath you breath while over the bucket.

pen25 said:

well considering several do ave have blown into there carboy without issue i'd say the risk is minimal. its a very small portion that would happen to be induced just as bad as going from carboy to bottling bucket. you still have nasties blowing in the air and that includes your breath you breath while over the bucket.

Click to expand...

Your analogy is a bit flawed; there are far fewer bacteria, wild yeasts, mold, etc. in the air than exist in one's mouth. It's orders of magnitude different.

I don't know if I agree, but for argument's sake, let's assume that the risk is minimal. It's an unnecessary risk, though, since there are plenty of other ways to do the same thing that don't present a risk.

And just because people do something without issue doesn't mean that the risk is minimal. Some people can play Russian Roulette without any ill effects, but the risk certainly isn't minimal.

There's no "right" or "wrong", but in 20+ years of brewing, I've never had a batch that I've had to toss out due to sanitation issues. I have tasted lots of other people's brews where there were issues, most likely due to lack of sanitary practices (gushing bottles are a bit of a giveaway). I prefer to avoid the risk. That is all.

kappclark said:

Can you place some kind of air filter before the carboy cap ?

Click to expand...

Sure... you could buy a barbed-fitting HEPA filter for a few bucks and use that... just be sure to keep it dry and keep the airflow in the same direction every time.

Autosiphon all the way! Regards, GF.

Don't forget to cup the balls.

Flyguy's $3 siphon works for me.

Pete08 said:

Flyguy's $3 siphon works for me.

Click to expand...

I must be an idiot because I couldn't get mine to work..

Let's review.

one tube goes into the beer, one tube goes into the empty bucket and one tube goes into my mouth. I had a very hard time blocking the tube that was going into the empty bucket so that beer would flow out of the full bucket.

Maybe a hose clamp would help?

BrewBrain said:

There is no need to suck your hose.

Step 1: Dip your hands in Starsan
Step 2: Make a loose fist around your hose, with the end of the hose at about your second finger inside your fist.
Step 3: Suck your fist hole
Step 4: Stick hose in target vessel before beer gets to the end.

No equipment required. No mouth on hose action.

Click to expand...

Cost: $0
Hastle: none
Additional unnecessary parts: none
Level of Difficulty: 0/10
Failure rate: never

pnj said:

I must be an idiot because I couldn't get mine to work..

Let's review.

one tube goes into the beer, one tube goes into the empty bucket and one tube goes into my mouth. I had a very hard time blocking the tube that was going into the empty bucket so that beer would flow out of the full bucket.

Maybe a hose clamp would help?

Click to expand...

Yes it would. I made some from aluminum/brass/stainless. One holds the racking cane out of the yeast in the carboy/bucket, one clamps off the discharge hose, one is ready to clamp off the suction hose. The latter two clamps are one handed affairs. They were polished to facilitate sanitizing. I only have the pics of the cane clamp and the discharge clamp. The suction clamp looks like a pliers/nutcracker. I clamp the discharge, then suck on the suction, once the beer gets to the discharge clamp, I attach the plier-type clamp to the suction (it stays in place until I'm finished siphoning), then unscrew the discharge clamp.

I'm sure that would make sense if I was there to watch it in action, but that seems way too complicated for me.

invest in an autosiphon, you wont regret it

Here is my problem with autosiphons...

We all make such a huge deal about sanitation, to the point that we are paranoid about any tiny little scratch that shows up in a plastic fermenter or anything else that touches the beer, as it could harbor bacteria.

The autosiphon I bought cannot be completely and totally dismantled, so there are cracks and crevices (around the gaskets and tips) that I can not get to in order to sanitize thoroughly. For me, the risk of bacteria getting in there is too great.

Or maybe I just have a weird autosiphon. I bought it from Morebeer though...

i second the filling of the siphon tube with sanitizing solution and putting one end of the tube into the beer. Make sure the hands are clean. Easy cheezy powerful gravity.

BrewBrain said:

There is no need to suck your hose.

Step 1: Dip your hands in Starsan
Step 2: Make a loose fist around your hose, with the end of the hose at about your second finger inside your fist.
Step 3: Suck your fist hole
Step 4: Stick hose in target vessel before beer gets to the end.

No equipment required. No mouth on hose action.

Click to expand...

#3 just sounds dirty

Used the "suck your fist hole" method to rack. First to a keg from secondary, then once again to go from Better Bottle to glass caroboy secondary.

Good technique ... siphon sucking w/o guilt.

I also liked the fact that I could see the end of the racking cane, and feel like I got a cleaner transfer from the primary.

Suck ur fist hole

Do not fear the FIST-HOLE! - Dwain

I've never used anything other than my mouth or filling the tube with water. No sanitation issues yet.