Hmmm, a centrifuge!!!

OK, so I got to looking around the house for my juicer after reading a couple of articles about centrifuge separation of stuff like algae http://www.simplecentrifuge.com. So, my juicer lets the liquid go through a paper filter in the side wall of the outer centrifuge as opposed to over the top of this wall like the ones I read about, but... I got to thinking about break separation after the boil and other filtration that something like this might come in handy for. I know I know, we have read all the stuff saying it doesn't matter about wort turbidity and the final product. However, I am wanting to get into lagers and everything I read says the cleaner the wort prior to ferment the cleaner the beer after ferment. I really think this could work well with some minor modification to filter wort. Well... I am bored and my mind screams, "make something!" Figured I'd post my thoughts and some pictures for others to maybe get an idea for something useful.








Looks simple, just pour in some Star-San right before use and fire her up. It would take forever to filter through a coffee filter paper, but this would squeeze it through real nice. I'm thinking it would spin all my hops clean from my hopsack and catch a vast majority of the break leaving me an empty kettle and an even fuller fermenter.

Find a way to pump your wort through that thing in a continuous stream, and you'll be onto something! It's not going to filter it to a point where it's 100% clear, but all the big chunks will likely be left behind. Do a few test runs - maybe using post-fermentation trub just to see what happens.

Hmmm, post ferment trub as well would be great. I was thinking of rigging up a feeder to go in the veggie hole and then a tube over the outlet to collect the runnings into my collection reservoir. I was thinking mainly for sparge filtering and then for post boil filter, but if I could get the thing sealed up and able to run under a counter pressure sort of thing beer filtration/ yeast separation for collection could be a great possibility. I think if I could get the actual non-perforated side that the lighter beer has to crawl up and over the side of would be great for beer filtering and yeast harvest. I am curious as to what kind of aeration I could get after the boil though. If I am running from kettle, to this, to my chiller on its way to the fermenter I should get great aeration from the little blades and the impact of hitting the filter wall don't you think?

Yuri_Rage said:

Find a way to pump your wort through that thing in a continuous stream, and you'll be onto something! It's not going to filter it to a point where it's 100% clear, but all the big chunks will likely be left behind. Do a few test runs - maybe using post-fermentation trub just to see what happens.

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we (being harpoon) are installing just that. currently our filtration system is taken care of by diatomaceous earth filtration. we are outfitting a new filtration room with a larger diatomaceous earth filter and a centrifuge. the beer will run through the centrifuge and then into the filter. this will actually pay for itself over time as it will increase our per-batch yield

I'm really liking this juicer idea more and more now. Man, I could only imagine what one on the mash tun would be like (like a really big one). You could fire it up after sparge and get the remaining wort out, and all of the wort would then run into another centrifuge and clear the big stuff before the kettle. Then after the boil run it through again on its way to the fermenter aerating it as you go. After ferment, you would need to be in a counter pressurizing centrifuge and then you could filter carbonated beer with no loss of carbonation. Of course, you would still have to polish with a finer filter to get to commercial quality clarity just like GloHoppa was talking about them doing at Harpoon. I am just thinking that the course filtration during sparge and after boil would be sufficient to remove more than enough larger solids. I can't wait to try this idea out. I'm thinking I could do it next time on my first-ever lager since the wort is really just pouring through one more device either time. Maybe block off the entrance during sparge for no air entry and then not worrying about it after the boil for aeration. Filter pads would be dirt cheap and are probably the same micron as coffee filters. Anyways, this being just an idea right now has some potential, but I really have to try this for sh!ts and giggles.

GloHoppa, how fine will the true centrifuge get you down too? With this juicer, it isn't really a centrifuge as much as it is a filter pad using gravity to force the wort through it. So, I am ultimately limited by the microns on the pads unlike you guys centrifuge. I am just wondering though how small a particle it will contain without escaping with the finished beer prior to filtration? I bet you guys are gonna save big time on as many filter DE pads. Guess now you can use fewer and finer pads with the same outcome even faster. I used to hate back-flushing our brewery's filter, not to mention the wasted beer. I bet you could filter a wheat through your DE filter and never even bog down after your initial centrifuge.

I built a centrifuge for filtering wast vegetable oil, and used motor oil for fuel in a diesel pickup.

Your juicer type of centrifuge will be limited to the micron of the filter as you have said.

To run in an enclosed closed hub that fills, and then spills out a hole aligned on its axis willl filter down to 1/10 of 1 micron. Anything with mass will remain in the hub and is forced against the inner wall and will not escape. The diam. of the hub, and the RPM will determine how many G forces the centrifuge will exhibit.

We have one of these at work. It will spin the wort clear....I'l almost guarantee!

GloHoppa said:

we (being harpoon) are installing just that. currently our filtration system is taken care of by diatomaceous earth filtration. we are outfitting a new filtration room with a larger diatomaceous earth filter and a centrifuge. the beer will run through the centrifuge and then into the filter. this will actually pay for itself over time as it will increase our per-batch yield

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I heard a nice couple bbl's of increased yield since it was installed. I do not remember when they said it would be paid off, but wasn't very long.

First, a juicer. Next, a modified washing machine permanently stuck on SPIN cycle.

I heading there EvilTOJ!

I know this sounds crazy but I just found two medical centrifuges in the back of the barn on the new property. Hmmmm...

All I can say is make sure they are clean. Yuck to the thought of them being used to seperate biologicals or even worse....

I am going nuts for this idea. You use it as your mash tun, that would also work in a RIMS or HERMS system. With the idea of a washing machine, you just need to take the drum out wrap it with SS mesh to ensure grain retention.

Replace the pump and the plumbing for wort circulation. Then at end of sparge hit the spin cycle and get ALL of your wort out of the grain.

To make a washing machine wort friendly, it is pretty cheap and easy actually. The tub can be taken out with little or no work. Then just replace the "skirt" & the plumbing and you are golden.

John

I've rebuilt many a' washing machine as a former apartment maintenance man.

I am about to own the actual juicer that I pictured in this thread. Mom and Dad are moving houses and they don't use it anymore, so it's mine now. I am pretty secure with the idea of using it as a post kettle filtration device. My thought pattern is that I am really tired of using a hop bag and spider and would rather just collect my trash in one spot, as well as my new idea... Centrifugal hop-back!

The filter paper held up to an experiment where I took all the stuff in my hop bag and blended it up with a gallon of water. I poured the mixture into the juicer and got basically the same amount in the form of a greenish liquid. No large particles, just fine floating hop particulate in the water. I would be very happy with this if it were my wort, as far as clarity goes. So, as a filter it works, and seems to not be in fear of clogging with just hops. Trub might mean I change the filter paper once during my kettle recycling, but that is just a maybe at this point. I feel like I should not worry about my center-located 1/2" dip tube becoming clogged, due to the fact that everything would be in suspension right at flame-out when I start to gravity drain to the juicer. As long as I have an 1/8" or a little larger spacing from the kettle bottom to the dip-tube bottom I should not clog... right? As the wort recirculates back into the kettle and starts the spinning, only then would the whirl-pooling action start and pose a potential problem for clogging. My thinking is the dip-tube would be able to handle the amount of trub/break/hop particles being funneled to it since they wouldn't be all at once. I wouldn't even attempt this if I whirl-pooled first.

My question for all of you reading, is what if I threw my post-flame addition hops directly into the juicer to have the hot wort go through them on its way to the grant/pump/chiller and then back to the kettle during my recirculation? Would this not be the same in theory as a hop-back operates? I wouldn't be limited to any type of hops either, since the juicer will chew up any form of hops from pellet to whole hops. The hot wort coming straight from the kettle should be evenly sprayed on my late hops and extract the goodness I want out of them, wouldn't it?

Old thread I know. But a brew pub I'm employed at just got a centrifuge and they want to use the centrifuge instead of laudering the grains. Is it possible to do a mash without doing a sparge of any kind? I'm just not sure the centrifuge will properly extract all the sugar that may be contained in the grains after just mashing it.

I think you need to lauter, then after the traditional lauter, you can wring out a little more with the centrifuge.

Me again, we still use the centrifuge to remove the liquid from the grain as my boss won't listen to my pleas for a proper mash lauter tun. I find for The process of removing the liquid from grain the centrifuge is not very good, it rives way too much grain flavour. It just all tastes the same, my partner and I both agree that doing a proper lautering is necessary without taking all the extra stuff out of the grain. It would be like pressing on your grain bed to get every last drop out of it. But I can see its use after boil to remove the crap before fermentation, or after dry hopping.

Cedar, you must know the gravity and volume of the wort and the weight of grain that went into each brew – that should allow you to calculate your lautering efficiency. I'd be surprised if it's particularly good on the centrifuge – but if a schmuck like me can regularly get ~75% in a cooler, you should be able to hit 80% on real equipment. Even just a 5% gain should add up to a lot of sacks of barley pretty quickly, maybe you can get to the boss through the wallet rather than the taste buds?

I normally get pretty solid efficiency, but since I have no lauter or way of sparking, I do a full mash with all my water initially which was what I had to adjust with this set up. I'd love to do a solid fly sparge like I know from other breweries and home brewing but can't with this set up. So I use just over 800L of water with my grain build, get around 800 then boil. All with the same mashtun/boil kettle. In a mega small place. It's frustrating to say the least hah

Damonic said:

I know this sounds crazy but I just found two medical centrifuges in the back of the barn on the new property. Hmmmm...

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Hmmm! Somebody wasn't running a meth lab in there were they?

Has anyone used an oil centrifuge to separate yeast before kegging? [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsLGX-RbKuQ[/ame] It would need to be filled with CO2 first to avoid oxygenation. I would love to have a small centrifuge to clarify finished product.

So do they still make Zima?

Cheers!