Some questions and calculations, pleeeeeeeeeeease help :-)

Ok where to start....Sorry about the metric measurements, when I have a little more time I'll edit them to the US equivalents.

I'll start off by describing my equipment.

18L (to the brim) SS Pot
14L (to the brim) Ali Pot
25L (to the brim) SS Still boiler
19L/5 Gallon MLT Rubbermaid w/ SS Braid - yet to make
Immersion chiller - yet to make

I do 23 L batches, why? Because I live in New Zealand and that's the size batches we do here well kinda, all my fermenters are marked at the 23L point and it works out well having 6 350mL bottles for drinking before it's ready, 24 x 750mL for drinking when it is, and another 6 350mL for drinking down the track.

Anyway, I'm looking to make the move to PMs in the very near future but before I go out buying more equipment I just want to clear things up.

1) The 25L still boiler looks like it would boil 23L comfortably, but it has an internal element (ie it would be sitting inside the wort) that I could use, will that be a problem? I'm thinking trub will sit around it and burn. Also, it's only a 1380W element, will this get hot enough?

Otherwise I could sit it on top of a gas burner but I don't think mine has enough grunt to boil the wort, the burner brings 11L of wort to a nice boil so 23L might be pushing it.

I know the simple answer is buy more equipment, but I like how this hobby/craft is cheap...well it's getting a little more expensive hehe.

Anyway, next question...

2) Since I can only boil 23L thats the most amount of wort I can take off from my MLT right?

From what I've read one wants to use the same amount of water to sparge as to mash, which I'm assuming in my case would be 23/2 = 11.5L. So I would want to mash with enough water to get 11.5L out and use another 11.5L to sparge (batch).

So I need to know what the max amount of grain I can use is seeing as one would use 3 - 4 L water / kg of grain and that the grain will absorb some water. How do I figure this out?

I think I'm missing something there or have something wrong.


Any help would be greatly appreciated, and sorry again for the metric measurements, any one who helps out is free to drop by my house for a brew if you're ever in my city/country.

I do 23 L batches,

So do I. it's around 6 US gallon or 5 UK gallon.

1) The 25L still boiler looks like it would boil 23L comfortably, but it has an internal element (ie it would be sitting inside the wort) that I could use, will that be a problem? I'm thinking trub will sit around it and burn. Also, it's only a 1380W element, will this get hot enough?

Quite a few people in the UK use electric and as long as you keep it clean they don't have a problem. The fuse blows some time.
As for the heat generated it may be a little on the low side. Some fit a second elememt to get to the boil the run on one element after that.


2) Since I can only boil 23L thats the most amount of wort I can take off from my MLT right?

No you need to take more because you loose some in the boil

From what I've read one wants to use the same amount of water to sparge as to mash, which I'm assuming in my case would be 23/2 = 11.5L. So I would want to mash with enough water to get 11.5L out and use another 11.5L to sparge (batch).

I mash at 2.61 L per KG and sparge with what ever I need to get to pre boil volume or intil I get the runnings doewn to 1010

So I need to know what the max amount of grain I can use is seeing as one would use 3 - 4 L water / kg of grain and that the grain will absorb some water. How do I figure this out?

I spread sheet helps with stuf like this. There are a few around.
I have done one and there's an old thread around with a few others.
BYO has one. http://byo.com/spreadsheet/
and www.howtobrew.com explains it all.

I think I'm missing something there or have something wrong.

You have it about right.

G'day mate, I'm in NZ too.

Everything is in Metric here aye, but I'm getting the hang of thinking in Imperial
I'm no good at converting quarts but I have a pretty good idea what an ounce bag of hops may look like

There is a great selection of fittings, braided hose and chilly bins at Bunnings for your mash tun, I've just been there today to get my parts.

Copper pipe costs about $16 a metre there, so it may just be cheaper getting an already made immersion chiller from Hauraki Homebrew in Takapuna.

As for your electric heater and brew pot, not sure. I'm looking for a gas ring and large brew pot but I haven't found anything big enough at The Warehouse, I'll let you know if I find some deals.

Haha, I know what you mean about the ounce mate haha. Quarts arn't too hard, 946mL if I remember correctly, so basically a L, I haven't come across much that uses them as an exact measurement so far.

I went down to my local Bunnings the other day, saw that they had the braided hoses which was a good find but I didn't really like the design of their round coolers, I think I'll go with the round ones even though they are a little more expensive. Payless Plastics sell the commonly see MLT rubbermaid ones, although a little pricey at $90 for 5 gallons and $149(?) for the 10. I might bite the bullet and just buy the Rubbermaid ones, I came into $100 the other day which was a surprise so I might just buy one of those.

The copper pipe is really expensive from Bunnings but when I was building my coloumn for my still I think about 50 feet of 3/8" of copper pipe was about $50 if you buy it from a plumbing type shop. So I might just throw one together myself with about 25 feet and make a pre chilller with the last 25 or make another one to sell off, depending on how well the immersion chiller works.

Yeah, the 25L still boiler is the common Still Spirits stainless boiler you see at brewshops. It takes around 40mins to bring a wash of about .990 to about 80C so I'm assuming it would take quite a while to bring a wort to a good roiling boil...if it ever does.

Apparently the Otara Flea Market is a great place to get large pots and ring burners from. I read a post on realbeer.co.nz forums about it.

Orfy, thanks, I think I might have to try sitting the boiler on my gas element and see how that goes. I saw a similar burner as the one I own rated at 5.8kW output which is obviously a lot more than the 1.4kW of the boiler element.

I think with number two there was a little confusion. I can only boil 23L (a coincidence that my batch size is also 23L), so I could either do a smaller batch or let some boil off and add more water when I transfer to the fermenter right? But my hop utilization would go down and I wouldnt get the full 'full wort boil' effect.

Thanks for the rest of your reply. I own the hardcopy of HTB and I'm reading through it a second time so hopefully that will clear things up for me.

Appreciate your guys replys

Maybe some day we will get a president with more balls then Reagan and finally join the rest of the world and use metric. I end up converting all my weights and measures into metric as I get much better accuracy (eg ounces to grams).

Quarts are easy to convert, they're a quarter of a gallon, so it takes four of them to make a gallon

We likes our old fractional measures, dangit

Here we go again.

Just leave me pint alone!

Buford said:

Quarts are easy to convert, they're a quarter of a gallon, so it takes four of them to make a gallon

We likes our old fractional measures, dangit

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It's just a pity your gallons and pints are the wrong size!!!!!

denimglen said:

I went down to my local Bunnings the other day, saw that they had the braided hoses which was a good find but I didn't really like the design of their round coolers, I think I'll go with the round ones even though they are a little more expensive. Payless Plastics sell the commonly see MLT rubbermaid ones, although a little pricey at $90 for 5 gallons and $149(?) for the 10. I might bite the bullet and just buy the Rubbermaid ones, I came into $100 the other day which was a surprise so I might just buy one of those.

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Yikes! $150 for a 10 gal Rubbermaid cooler? I hope your dollar is worth a LOT less than hours, because you can get them here for $30 if you shop around.

Seriously, if you can get the rectangular ones cheaper and you intend to batch sparge, go that route. The benefits of the round coolers aren't that substantive.

The copper pipe is really expensive from Bunnings but when I was building my coloumn for my still I think about 50 feet of 3/8" of copper pipe was about $50 if you buy it from a plumbing type shop. So I might just throw one together myself with about 25 feet and make a pre chilller with the last 25 or make another one to sell off, depending on how well the immersion chiller works.

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Again, not sure of the exchange, but I got a stainless steel braid for $5 and I am completely happy with it. Copper manifolds are supposed to be excellent, as well, but probably not worth it if you can save some significant cash.

150NZD = 118USD. I was looking at bringing one over from the states but it worked out almost the same price with shipping etc. I did just order two better bottles though, the total cost, bottles and shipping, was the same amount as getting two glass carboys in NZ. The joys of living in a small country eh.

I might get a rectangular one then, would the 10 gallon grain bed depth be two shallow for my partial mashes? I have a feeling I read somewhere the grain bed depth doesn't matter too much with batch sparging.

The SS braids arn't badly priced here, I'll probably go with one of them, seems the faster, easier, cheaper way to do it as buying that small amound of copper would work out quite expensive.

Cheers everyone

denimglen said:

Ok where to start....Sorry about the metric measurements, when I have a little more time I'll edit them to the US equivalents..........................................

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A friend of mine wrote this Metric Batch Sparge/Boil Volume calculator that you may find handy

http://www.18000feet.com/calculators/batch_calculator.html

Hope it helps a little