musclebrew
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do you really need more then 4ft of beer line for dispensing,i have heard 6ft is better!!
Musclebrew and Golddiggie are each talking about different types of tubing.
Musclebrew is refering to 3/16" I.D. whereas Goldiggie is talking about 1/4" I.D.
Golddiggie said:Completely depends on your system and how it's set up. I have 10 foot lines for my kegs. I also find that if my CO2 pressure goes above 14psi, I get a LOT of foam. Keeping it under 14psi and it dispenses well.
There are calculators out there to figure out your beer line length. OR you can simply go with the rule of thumb many of us follow... 1 foot of beer line per 1 psi of CO2 pressure your kegs will be under. You can go above, and below, the pressure at the same beer line length. IME, worst that will happen is the pour will be a little slower. I'm patient when it comes to these things, so I don't mind spending a few more seconds per pint if it means I won't get a glass full (or half glass) of foam.
It sounds like your kegs are overpressured. Do you monitor the pressure level in each keg?
jcaudill said:That's not a rule of thumb I'd follow. Sounds like a waste of tubing and cleaner. There are formulas for a reason! And simple ones at that.
jcaudill said:One thing I'll note is that pressure readout is certainly not going to be representative of pressure in each tank if say you have 4 on the same run. You could have one at 12, one at 25, one at 15 and so on. It's more like the average pressure. You really have to have a gauge at every keg to really get an accurate picture.
How do you explain this phenomenon?
2 psi per foot of tubing is a variable in an equation, or don't you see that.
jcaudill said:That's not a rule of thumb I'd follow. Sounds like a waste of tubing and cleaner. There are formulas for a reason! And simple ones at that.
That's not a rule of thumb I'd follow. Sounds like a waste of tubing and cleaner. There are formulas for a reason! And simple ones at that.
Yooper said:There are a couple of other points that bear repeating here. One is if you use "barrier" type of tubing. It seems like you need far more of that then the calculators say.
Another point is that it's not scientific, but anecdotal with the experiences we're sharing with line lengths. It's probably true that in a perfect environment, you'd need xxx feet of tubing due to the height, drop, etc. But most of us have cold spots and warm spots in our kegerators, warmer faucets than kegs, possibly a tower, etc.
I started with 6' lines. It was a little foamy, so I went to 8' lines. Ok, much of the time, but not always. Then I went to 10' lines. It was better, as long as I didn't go over 12 psi at 39 degrees. Because of that experience, I'd simply recommend going longer. You can always cut them shorter, but you can't cut them longer!
If the line is "too long", the worst thing that can happen is it takes 2-3 seconds longer to pour a beer. If the line is too short, foaming and having bad pours is a reality. Faced with those two scenarios, I would go with longer lines to begin with.
I am all for anecdotal, but can someone explain this to me. I am set at 38F with 16 psi and 5 foot lines, and I have a perfect pour every time. I will accept that the laws of physics do not exist here in ME.
I mean no disrespect to you Yooper as I hold you in high regard.
WRONG... I AM talking about 3/16" ID beer line... It's all I EVER use for beer serving lines. Before you assume you know what you're talking about, confirm it.
My problem with making blanket rule of thumb statements is that everyone coming on here, reads them and just uses them without understanding the science behind it. Someone will come by this thread wth 1/2" ID tubing and then use 2psi per foot as a rule and then it'll be nothing but problems.
Let the ridicule begin.
First - if you keep your lines cold temperature has little to no bearing here. You'll get initial foaming as soon as cold beer hits your warm tap but once the tap cools everything will be fine. If your keezer is really that sensitive then you really need to put a fan n it. But I just can't see it.
The most important factors are keg pressure and restriction. A significant amount of overpressure whether by short tubing, larger diameter tubing or improper regulator setting will result in CO2 trying to escape and hence - foaming.
If your line is too long - your beer flow is slow or could even come to a complete stop. You'll have to account for this by increasing pressure at your regulator. So all you've done in the end is waste tubing and gas to account for the loss of pressure. I don't care if it's 1' or 5'. It's a waste and eventually it adds up.
My suspicion is based on your comment, your line length and keg pressure create the right amount of overpressure at the tap to have a "perfect pour". That's all there is to it.
I would implore anyone who thinks their problem is solved by increasing line length to take a closer look at their setup and try to figure out the cause of the problem instead of putting a band-aid on it. Do you in fact have higher keg pressure than you thought? Do you have a vertical rise or descent you didn't account for? Do you have a different tubing material or ID? Is your regulator actually working right? More than likely, there is a reasonable explanation. This isn't some willy nilly formula. It's what pretty much every brewery, commercial and homebrewer alike use to figure out draft runs. And magically - it's what my keezer uses and works like a charm. 12 psi, PE tubing, 3/16" ID, no vertical change, 5'. I had issues last month - found out my keg was super over-pressured. Bled it down to 12 psi and voila - everything was fine.
So if you want to accommodate varying line pressures ok - this changes things a bit. Then you're going to have to have longer lines and sacrifice a bit. Or, have many secondary regs that have the right tubing length attached.
My problem with making blanket rule of thumb statements is that everyone coming on here, reads them and just uses them without understanding the science behind it. Someone will come by this thread wth 1/2" ID tubing and then use 2psi per foot as a rule and then it'll be nothing but problems.
musclebrew said:I have 5ft lines with 3/16 tubing dispensing at 10psi@36 degrees am I over carbing the beer?
I have 5ft lines with 3/16 tubing dispensing at 10psi@36 degrees am I over carbing the beer?
An Irish red ale generally is 2.2-2.6 volumes of co2 so to be to style you should have a median volume of 2.3 and to maintain that in your draft system at 36 degrees you should have a keg pressure of 8.2. In order for you to pour 2 ounces per second you'll need maybe about 2 and a half feet of 3/16 vinyl line. I didn't do the math- this is an estimate... But then your next beer will most likely be different and the next and the next. This gets exhausting find a middle ground and stick with it.
schroeder said:I think that beer would be better warmer. My laundry room sits at around 54F so I would be keeping it out of the fridge and pressurizing at 18PSIG for 2.3v/v with just over 6' of restriction
If you mean that beer would taste better warmer... I think most breweries/ brewers agree that the best temps for serving beer are between 38 and 48 degrees. Lighter American style lagers being closer to 38 while I personally like most full flavored beers to be served around 43-45. Big High alcohol beers are best served around 55 but much of this is personal preference.
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