Exploring "no chill" brewing

The Pol said:

every book you read says you MUST chill quickly.

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Because if you're leaving the wort exposed to air when it's nice and toasty warm for too long, it's more likely to get infected.

wendelgee2 said:

Because if you're leaving the wort exposed to air when it's nice and toasty warm for too long, it's more likely to get infected.

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Who is leaving it open to air?

I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere, but I'd rather not shift through 80 pgs to find it. So if someone can be so kind...after I'm done boiling my wort, can I just put the lid on it and let it cool over night or at least down to 100 or so before dumping into carboy? I can't think of any other way!

aliu630 said:

I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere, but I'd rather not shift through 80 pgs to find it. So if someone can be so kind...after I'm done boiling my wort, can I just put the lid on it and let it cool over night or at least down to 100 or so before dumping into carboy? I can't think of any other way!

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Yep! Just try to keep the nasties out of your BK while it cools. :rockin:

A lot of good info has been discovered on this topic both in this thread and elsewhere - but is so dispered. Is there anyone willing to do a Wiki on this or something similar?

I am drinking my first No Chill brew now. Very good brew. I only did a 5g batch to test my recipe and hop additions I changed for NC.
When the weather permits, I am going to do a little experiment and do a 10g batch and drain off 5g in a cube then chill the other 5g with an immersion chiller then compare the 2. Right now I am sold on No Chill. My first try was great. I did a IPA and changed my hop schedule to omit late addition hops and did a FWH and all is good. I have a No Chill Dunkleweizen ready to keg nowas well as another 10g of IIPA fermenting.

wrestler63 said:

I am drinking my first No Chill brew now. Very good brew. I only did a 5g batch to test my recipe and hop additions I changed for NC.
When the weather permits, I am going to do a little experiment and do a 10g batch and drain off 5g in a cube then chill the other 5g with an immersion chiller then compare the 2. Right now I am sold on No Chill. My first try was great. I did a IPA and changed my hop schedule to omit late addition hops and did a FWH and all is good. I have a No Chill Dunkleweizen ready to keg nowas well as another 10g of IIPA fermenting.

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Just remember, they won't be the same beer -- the no chill will have a different hop profile then the chilled one

Jonnio said:

Just remember, they won't be the same beer -- the no chill will have a different hop profile then the chilled one

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I formulate all my recipes with no-chill in mind. I split my 10 gallon batches into 2 cubes and usually cube hop with different varieties and sometimes use a different yeast. It's 2 beers from one boil

I just ordered a 7 gallon conical,so I'll be doing some no-chill experiments with it.

aliu630 said:

I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere, but I'd rather not shift through 80 pgs to find it. So if someone can be so kind...after I'm done boiling my wort, can I just put the lid on it and let it cool over night or at least down to 100 or so before dumping into carboy? I can't think of any other way!

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As noted above its fine with a decent lid. As further proof, this guy's set up impresses me; he actually ferments in the kettle:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/show-me-your-wood-brew-sculpture-rig-73794/index8.html#post1395145

I imagine its very convienient if you have multiple kettles or are interested in restricted production. But it is certainly possible to keep that wort in your kettle for a quite a while. N_G

Jonnio said:

Just remember, they won't be the same beer -- the no chill will have a different hop profile then the chilled one

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I am sure that will be the case. Just want to document difference. I like the FWH and no chill. Wondering how it will be when chilled.

rca said:

Anybody aware of a container that could be used for no chill that is around the 3 gallon size? I searched on the US Plastic site and didn't see any. I like to try some weird beers and usually do them in small batches. I'd like to try them no chill but I need a suitable container. I've got the winpaks for my regular batches.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Ron

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Ron I found a 3 gallon HDPE #2 container at our local deli. It is square has a built-in handle and a large cap. They get their salad oil in them and throw them away. Also the peanut oil for turkey fryers comes in a 3 gallon container.

I did 2 five gallon batches. I "plugged" in a 65% efficiency and it came out at low 80's (I'll calc later.) It certainly was easier. Note to self: Sparging is overrated!

I'm a little surprised how long it takes 5 gallons to drop in temp! Maybe tonight I can pitch.

I usually use conicals, but this time glass carboys. I just preheated the carboy and set it into a boil kettle with hot water and no issues with cracking glass.

I am really surprised at the amount of cold break. I suppose I'll rack it prior to pitching as I have 'extra' wort anyway.

I'll bet I've screwed up the hopping schedule . . . maybe a delicious mistake. Anyway, I like it.

Alright. I drank the Kool-aid

I made an attempt at a super simple stovetop recipe. I'm building a system that is supposedly going to be easy peasy....so I wanted to get back to my roots with an extract IPA on the kitchen stove. I simply covered the kettle at flameout, let it cool for an hour or so, and took it out to a cold garage. I'll let it cool overnight and dump it into a fermenter....probably a bucket.

So far Ive done 10 no chill batches, but I have been using a 3L pale ale malt for the base. Has anyone tried this with 2L continental pilsener malt as a base malt?

nealperkins said:

I did 2 five gallon batches. I "plugged" in a 65% efficiency and it came out at low 80's (I'll calc later.) It certainly was easier. Note to self: Sparging is overrated!

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Agree. I keep surprising myself by hitting 85% or better every time I BIABWAS (with a sparge.) I think I'm just gonna spend the extra buck for another 1.5 lbs of base malt and forget the sparge.

nealperkins said:

I'm a little surprised how long it takes 5 gallons to drop in temp! Maybe tonight I can pitch.

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It usually takes 24 hours for my wort to get to pitching temp.

nealperkins said:

I'll bet I've screwed up the hopping schedule . . . maybe a delicious mistake. Anyway, I like it.

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I definitely don't have the hops sched figured out yet so let me know if you get it!

So.... I still no chill and I like it a lot. But I don't find my 'no-chill' needs being met anymore in this thread. Are any of the other brewing boards you know of having active discussions on this topic?

N_G

nutty_gnome said:

So.... I still no chill and I like it a lot. But I don't find my 'no-chill' needs being met anymore in this thread. Are any of the other brewing boards you know of having active discussions on this topic?

N_G

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What "needs" might those be?

High,
The problem with your wort sitting around for hours on end to cool down to pitching temp, is that in exact that time, the wort is most vulnerable for any kind of bacterial infection.
There is no healthy yeast to take over a high sugar content liquid.
And at those warm temps it is an ideal breeding ground for all sorts of unwanted critters.
Without extreme sanitation the chance of spoilage is high.
Plus the effect of a cold break to settle out free floating proteins is not given.
Now if there are people wanting to reinvent the wheel by using unorthodox brewing practices, let´ém go ahead.
If it works for them, fine and dandy.
I myself use a copper coil wort chiller that gets dumped into the kettle 10min prior to flame-out to santise it.
My so careful produced wort and the hops added during the boil is just too valuable to take a chance upon spoiling it.
Prost
swillmaker

In all my time on the Aussie boards and here, never seen one bad batch, or experienced one myself. Also, the beers clear just as well as any beer made from traditionally chilled wort.

This was covered a couple years ago.

Sanitation, covered
Cold break/beer clearing, covered
DMS, covered
Botulism, covered

This is an old process, hardly re-inventing the wheel, hardly unorthodox

swillmaker said:

High,
The problem with your wort sitting around for hours on end to cool down to pitching temp, is that in exact that time, the wort is most vulnerable for any kind of bacterial infection.
There is no healthy yeast to take over a high sugar content liquid.
And at those warm temps it is an ideal breeding ground for all sorts of unwanted critters.
Without extreme sanitation the chance of spoilage is high.
Plus the effect of a cold break to settle out free floating proteins is not given.
Now if there are people wanting to reinvent the wheel by using unorthodox brewing practices, let´ém go ahead.
If it works for them, fine and dandy.
I myself use a copper coil wort chiller that gets dumped into the kettle 10min prior to flame-out to santise it.
My so careful produced wort and the hops added during the boil is just too valuable to take a chance upon spoiling it.
Prost
swillmaker

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You're preaching to the choir. Stand by for a beating...

wyzazz said:

What "needs" might those be?

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I want to know more about the hop schedules. The 20 minute offset works for me for bittering and "20 minute" flavor additions. But I'd like to know more about First Wort Hopping for the later (<5 minute) additions. The reason I ask is this: The aroma of a 5 minute addition and the aroma from dry hopping are two different things and I'd like to get that 5 minute addition essence back into the brew and supposedly FWH is one way to go about it. Anyone have any experience FWH'ing a no chill for a finer aroma?

Last night I no-chill brewed a Vienna SMASH with Northern Brewer. I FWH'd it with 0.5 oz northern brewer. I guess I'll just start experimenting.


Swillmaker: Glad your chiller works for you; I don't own one. Looking through my notebook I count 15 consecutive no-chill brews since last July. All were "mighty fine" and all were served to family and friends without hesitation. Your professed negatives about the process have all been challenged and put to rest in favor of the no-chill process long ago. Enjoy your chiller.

N_G

nutty_gnome said:

I want to know more about the hop schedules. The 20 minute offset works for me for bittering and "20 minute" flavor additions. But I'd like to know more about First Wort Hopping for the later (<5 minute) additions. The reason I ask is this: The aroma of a 5 minute addition and the aroma from dry hopping are two different things and I'd like to get that 5 minute addition essence back into the brew and supposedly FWH is one way to go about it. Anyone have any experience FWH'ing a no chill for a finer aroma?

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I FWH a lot of my beers and and can say that is really does add a LOT to the aroma/flavor. Not to mention it makes better use of the hops! I'd agree that dry hopping is a much different aroma.

How about sharing a hop schedule for a no-chill beer you like? N_G

Here's the schedule I use for my Centennial IPA, my 5 & 15 minute additions are both moved to FWH. It's got a lot more flavor and aroma than Bell's Two Hearted Ale FWIW.

Original Schedule (With Chilling)

1.20 oz Centennial [9.20 %] (60 min)
0.60 oz Centennial [9.20 %] (30 min)
0.80 oz Centennial [9.20 %] (15 min)
2.40 oz Centennial [9.20 %] (5 min)
1.00 oz Centennial [9.20 %] (Dry Hop 10 days)

No Chill Schedule

1.20 oz Centennial [9.20 %] (40 min)
0.60 oz Centennial [9.20 %] (10 min)
3.20 oz Centennial [9.20 %] (FWH)
1.00 oz Centennial [9.20 %] (Dry Hop 10 days)

I happen to have more than enough centennial to make that. Its intriguiing. Please post or direct me to the rest of the recipe. Thanks!

Enjoy! It's like a Two Hearted Ale, but more hoppy.

10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 83.33 %
1 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.33 %
8.0 oz Aromatic Malt (21.0 SRM) Grain 4.17 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 4.17 %

DerBraumeister said:

So far Ive done 10 no chill batches, but I have been using a 3L pale ale malt for the base. Has anyone tried this with 2L continental pilsener malt as a base malt?

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I recently brewed a Belgian Pale with 78% Belgian Pilsner using No-Chill and it came out fine. Just made sure to boil for 90 minutes to help remove DMS, most of my pale ale malt beers only boil for 60. I've done 20+ batches using the No-Chill method and haven't had one go bad yet.

Wow, so that is pegging at at around 125 IBU using 9.5% hops.

My centennial are 6 percent
so I'd have to use:

1.8 oz Centennial [6 %] (40 min)
0.9 oz Centennial [6 %] (10 min)
5 oz Centennial [6 %] (FWH)
1.00 oz Centennial [6 %] (Dry Hop 10 days)

Thats a lot of hops in 5 gallons! Seriously 5 ounces of FWH? wow.

I get about 150 IBU Tinseth. If you're scared, you can knock down that FWH addition. I don't drink mine fast enough so I like to make sure there's enough hoppiness to last!

I'm scared. Very scared. I'm worried I'll end up with green beer! I think I'll drop that FWHpuppy down to maybe 3 ounces at 6%.

Since you offered one, I'll offer my SMASH, based on Deathbrewers traditional one.

10 pounds of vienna at 154 for 60 mins.
FWH 0.5 oz Northern Brewer 8.1%
Timed 0.75 oz Northern Brewer 8.1 % - 40 min
Timed 0.75 oz Northern Brewer 8.1 % - Flameout
If you wish, dry hop with Northern Brewer (1 oz?)

Let me know how you like it, I haven't had anyone dislike it thus far!

swillmaker said:

High,
The problem with your wort sitting around for hours on end to cool down to pitching temp, is that in exact that time, the wort is most vulnerable for any kind of bacterial infection.
There is no healthy yeast to take over a high sugar content liquid.
And at those warm temps it is an ideal breeding ground for all sorts of unwanted critters.
Without extreme sanitation the chance of spoilage is high.
Plus the effect of a cold break to settle out free floating proteins is not given.
Now if there are people wanting to reinvent the wheel by using unorthodox brewing practices, let´ém go ahead.
If it works for them, fine and dandy.
I myself use a copper coil wort chiller that gets dumped into the kettle 10min prior to flame-out to santise it.
My so careful produced wort and the hops added during the boil is just too valuable to take a chance upon spoiling it.
Prost
swillmaker

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Yeah, you're right.

As a matter of fact, those new-fangled horseless carriages, AKA automobiles, are scary too.

Why take a chance?

Looking back through my log book, I have in the neighborhood of 40-50 no chills dating back to 2004 which is more or less when I started getting too lazy to bother with the chiller. Only about 10-15 of those have been done since tinkering with the hop schedule that went on in this forum last year. I've found myself migrating back towards the recipes' actual hop schedules vs. modified ones but additions at flameout and dry hopping are sufficient for hop aroma as far as I'm concerned. I guess what I've personally noticed is that no chill does monkey the hop utilization a bit (which is especially evident when brewing clone recipes) but the adjustments seem to do more harm than good for what I'm expecting vs. what I get. YMMV

hal2814 said:

I've found myself migrating back towards the recipes' actual hop schedules vs. modified ones but additions at flameout and dry hopping are sufficient for hop aroma as far as I'm concerned. I guess what I've personally noticed is that no chill does monkey the hop utilization a bit (which is especially evident when brewing clone recipes) but the adjustments seem to do more harm than good for what I'm expecting vs. what I get. YMMV

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Same here.

When I'm formulating a recipe, I do back off the bittering hops just a bit. Or, a better way to put it, I don't get carried away with bittering hops. Then beef up and shift later hop additions.

The last three beers I brewed were "no chills". The last two I just killed the flame and placed the cover on my kettle and left on the stove till the following morning. Brews turned out great. Tasty awesome beers. Friends & family have loved them.

However, all of these no chills were new recipes so I can't really speak to hop utilization differences. I've been leaving the hops right in the kettle till I'm ready to ferment and then transfer the wort to my bucket and straining out the hops.

A friend and I are going to parallel brew the Stone Levitation clone from the CYBI show. We will use the exact same recipe only he'll immersion chill and I'll "no chill".

What is the best estimation of how I should treat hops and hopping schedule for this test?

Should I remove the hops after the boil and not let them sit in the cooling beer for 16-18 hours?

Thanks.

daveyohill said:

The last three beers I brewed were "no chills". The last two I just killed the flame and placed the cover on my kettle and left on the stove till the following morning. Brews turned out great. Tasty awesome beers. Friends & family have loved them.

However, all of these no chills were new recipes so I can't really speak to hop utilization differences. I've been leaving the hops right in the kettle till I'm ready to ferment and then transfer the wort to my bucket and straining out the hops.

A friend and I are going to parallel brew the Stone Levitation clone from the CYBI show. We will use the exact same recipe only he'll immersion chill and I'll "no chill".

What is the best estimation of how I should treat hops and hopping schedule for this test?

Should I remove the hops after the boil and not let them sit in the cooling beer for 16-18 hours?

Thanks.

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The parts of the hop that affect isomerization are in the beer almost as soon as you dunk the hops into the boiling wort. You can separate out the hop gunk or not after the boil, but utilization will be the same either way.

Has anyone had a 6 gallon Winpak deform or hold its semi collapsed shape from the cooling process? I just kegged a beer I made not too long ago and the Winpak has a slight indent where it sucked in. Doesn't look like melting, just curious if this has happened to anyone else.

avaserfi said:

Has anyone had a 6 gallon Winpak deform or hold its semi collapsed shape from the cooling process? I just kegged a beer I made not too long ago and the Winpak has a slight indent where it sucked in. Doesn't look like melting, just curious if this has happened to anyone else.

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Yep, it'll pop back out the next time you fill it with hot wort/water.

avaserfi said:

Has anyone had a 6 gallon Winpak deform or hold its semi collapsed shape from the cooling process? I just kegged a beer I made not too long ago and the Winpak has a slight indent where it sucked in. Doesn't look like melting, just curious if this has happened to anyone else.

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Just open the cap, add some water, and sit it in the hot sun.

This spring I made an American Stout, and due to laziness, I simply stuck the kettle in a snowbank with a lid and left it out overnight. The temp was just below freezing at night and FYI the beer seems pretty tasty, and even as a stout, I don't see any haze.

Fermentation lagged a bit, but I used dried yeast and didn't wait until the wort was up to temp before pitching. It was probably still a bit cool.