Lets Make Useful Brewing Software

I have been lurking this forum for a while now and have been really excited about getting into homebrewing. My favorite beer has always been Guinness, but after reading the thread today about how after homebrewing for a while some people have reported Guinness tasting like water, I decided I need to get started ASAP. Unfortunately I do not have enough money budgeted today to buy the initial equipment and ingredients to brew, but I have a strategy.

I know how to program, so I think I can make something that is either valuable enough to a few of you out there to pitch a few bucks my way, or maybe just collect some money from ads to support my brewing hobby.

An initial thought I had was an Android phone application that reads in a BeerXML recipe (like from beersmith) and sets up all the timers you need on brew day.

Then I thought it would be even cooler if I made a website that could be accessed from any phone (android, iphone, windows mobile) or any computer (windows, linux, mac, ipad) that could read in a BeerXML recipe and start some timers from the webpage (and shoot you a text message or something to let you know when the timer is up). Maybe this webpage could also someday let you tweak and create recipes once I learn more about how that process works from my own brewing days . There are probably 1000 more exciting things that it could eventually do.

Anyway, you all are the pro's, so tell me what your thoughts on those two things (what you like, don't like, would you use it, would you pay for it?). I also encourage you to speak up about any interesting things you think would be useful to the homebrewing crowd. Thanks!

I've been working on a more comprehensive brewing application that introduces inventory and cost accounting into a brew-day management capability similar to what you describe, backed by recipe and ingredient library management capabilities and a basic MRP tool. Sounds like a lot but it all will fit nicely into a single interface that is very intuitive. I'm looking for collaborators on the project. If you are interested, it's a C# code base and I'd be happy to talk to you offline. Send me a PM with Phone# and I will call you.

I've been using "Brewzor" for my droid for some of this but it is a little clunky, something to look at though. I'll certainly watch for and check out your software, I'm always looking for new apps.
Rav

If anyone who knows how to code cared to write a program/module that could seamlessly translate ProMash files (*.rec, *.brw) to BeerXML and vice versa that would be a really cool feature for me. I really love ProMash, but it's so out of date (and has no mobile platform version). I can live with the few bugs it has b/c so far I've not found anything comparable that allows you to take session/brew notes within the (separate) file (*.brw) that represents each brew day.

The biggest problem I see with brewing software is that the developers lose interest over time. Eventually someone will develop an open source program that can read other formats (ProMash, Beersmith, etc) and it will take over like wildfire. I say get it started

robtotten said:

The biggest problem I see with brewing software is that the developers lose interest over time. Eventually someone will develop an open source program that can read other formats (ProMash, Beersmith, etc) and it will take over like wildfire. I say get it started

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+1...ProMash hasn't been updated in ????...I had heard on another board that someone in the developer's family (? wife) had been extremely ill, which is why the product stopped being updated. I wonder if the developer would be willing to sell to an interested party...

Um. brewtarget? Open source, Qt based. You need to know C++, MVC and Qt. I learned all three on the fly pretty much while fixing some of the rough spots. As almost any open source project will state, patches are always welcome.

I hadn't thought much about trying to reverse engineer the native formats for the other programs. Hmmm. That has some interesting possibilities.

Sweet, I didn't know that it's open source. I'll have to check it out, I'm no expert but know a little C++

dham said:

Unfortunately I do not have enough money budgeted today to buy the initial equipment and ingredients to brew, but I have a strategy.

I know how to program, so I think I can make something that is either valuable enough to a few of you out there to pitch a few bucks my way, or maybe just collect some money from ads to support my brewing hobby.

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If you're going to expect any payment from any of our members, you'll have to become a Vendor here on the site. Offering something to earn a few bucks makes you a Vendor.

You're welcome to stay on the forum and talk about brewing, and browse the forum, but if you plan on selling anything you'll have to become a Vendor.

I have an excel spreadsheet that can most of this already, would anyone like a copy? I work for a large software company and there is no need to create a piece of software for grainbills, formulas calculation, and batch tracking. there are plenty of porgrams out there that already do this. Just need to learn how to use them.

The problem with online stuff is saving recipes and what not. Of course it can be done with the serve wants to store all that data.

It would be cool if our recipe section evolved to include data calcs and recipe formation. Kind of a merge of social media/forum/recipe database. If hbt could do all our math for us, save our brews and recipes, link them to our account, be able to share all our info easily. It would easily take over google and yahoo as the most visited sites.

Brewpal for the iPhone works well. They might have an Andoid version of it.

I had a similar idea, and have been working on a very simple C# boil timer app. Basically it imports a beerxml file and sets up a timer and reminders for each addition. Currently its about 80% done with plans to convert it to a web application. Another interesting application would be a social beer tasting and sharing app for mobile devices if it doesn't already exist.

dham said:

Then I thought it would be even cooler if I made a website that could be accessed from any phone (android, iphone, windows mobile) or any computer (windows, linux, mac, ipad)

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Will it work on my computer?

Inodoro_Pereyra said:

Will it work on my computer?

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Oh my god, oh my god oh my god. Back in the day my big brother had one of those. I actually wrote my very first college term paper on it...Oh geeze. The green 3 or 4 inch screen was the schizzell. And dual 5 1/4 floppy drives, whoa whoa whoa!!!

OP, you've admitted to never brewing a single batch of beer before, and besides that this is your very first post on this forum, you think you can make something that can actually help us brew (when you've never brewed yourself) AND YOU WANT US TO GIVE YOU MONEY?!?!?!?!?!

WTF.....Next are you gonna announce that you have one of these for sale as well?



every now and then we get someone in here with some pie in the sky idea, or looking for something FROM us, like a recipe or something right off the bat, in their very first post...Without first giving anything to the community.

We even had some guy on here who wanted us to give him a recipe so his wife could win an award....someone else asking us what kind of brewing tool we "need" so he could patent it and invent it...not knowing a damn thing about brewing...another one, like you, wanted to design brewing software, and wanted us to help him...not even being aware of all the brewing software already out there, some of it created by our very own members.

Are you? Do you know what is already out there? Have you used any of it to see what it's like and if it's worth re-inventing the wheel?

It really has sort of an "I don't really care about you and what you have going on here, I just want to take advantage of you," feeling

Maybe if you spent some time around here participating and being a part of the culture BEFORE HAND (like some of the vendors on here, they don't just try to sell to us, they actually give back to the group with help, wisdom, insight, and advice...not just trying to take our money.)

So excuse us if we're a little suspicious...most of us weren't born yesterday.

Maybe you wanna hang out on here and learn something about brewing from us, maybe you even want to try brewing on your own, before you try to make something that you'd like us to help fund.

If you can find a way to accurately predict final gravity, considering attenuation, mash temp, and ingredients, instead of just using attenuation and original gravity, I'd be all for it

o4_srt said:

If you can find a way to accurately predict final gravity, considering attenuation, mash temp, and ingredients, instead of just using attenuation and original gravity, I'd be all for it

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I have a formula that I've been working on for about 2 years now that is pretty good based on ingredients, mash temp, OG, yeast max attenuation and some other correction factors. I'm not quite ready to publish but it's what I use to estimate FG - and it's WAY more accurate than what I've used on some other calc programs out there.

Revvy said:

Oh my god, oh my god oh my god. Back in the day my big brother had one of those. I actually wrote my very first college term paper on it...Oh geeze. The green 3 or 4 inch screen was the schizzell. And dual 5 1/4 floppy drives, whoa whoa whoa!!!

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I saw one when I was like 20 y.o. Never even touched it. In my country, it was over 8000 dollars at the time.
Now, every now and then, one pops up on Ebay. I will buy me one, as soon as I can.

It'd be cool to have something that doesn't use yeast attenuation on adjuncts when determining final gravity.

Revvy - Perhaps you have misinterpreted the intent of my post. I am not trying to sell you something on a whim-- I do not even have a something to sell. My intention is to start a discussion about the current state of software for home brewers so that I can gauge what kinds of things I can contribute to help people most effectively. I gave two examples of possible areas that needs improvement based on me looking into the software that is already out there (yes, I have tried some of them and researched a bunch more) and things I have heard people say on this forum in the past.

I apologize for coming across as thinking I can just take without first contributing, but discussing software is likely the only way I can actively contribute today until I can afford some brewing equipment. I am not looking for donations or anything... I would never think about expecting something from you before giving you something that you find valuable. And the only way for me to know what you would find valuable is by simply asking you.

Cheers

Geez Revvy, feeling a bit grumpy today? You totally ripped the guy a new a-hole.

That said, he does have a bit of a point though I would not have presented it anywhere near that fashion. When you mentioned "throwing some money" your way I too was really suspicious of your intent.

Now, you may be a bit late to the game here. For one, on the iPhone the most popular software is Brewpal. On the Android I am currently using Brewzor and really like it, though it is in beta stage and has a lot to work on before going primetime. Brewzor so far is free. When it's a finished product he will probably charge for it and I won't mind dropping no more than $5 on it. Main reason being on the PC end I use Beersmith in Linux and paid the $20 something dollars for it. Brewzor even in beta stage imports all my Beersmith XML recipes so it's not like I do recipe formulation on my phone. But it would really be nice to have a full finished software to use - again though by the time you get started you'd be way behind.

Then lastly there's the experience factor. You have a LOT to learn young Jedi. So it's not like you'd come up with a professional software we could all use without being an experienced brewer. Either way, if you do take this journey I wish you the best of luck. The path to take though is to do this with your own funding, release is for free in the early stages, then charge when it's truly ready.

BTW, what's up with the mods lately? This doesn't belong in this section and there was also a wine thread running that was never moved. When Revvy was in for surgery and I created a pic toast thread it was moved to General ChitChat in less than a day.


Rev.

NWAleDad said:

I have an excel spreadsheet that can most of this already, would anyone like a copy? I work for a large software company and there is no need to create a piece of software for grainbills, formulas calculation, and batch tracking. there are plenty of porgrams out there that already do this. Just need to learn how to use them.

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NWAleDad - I would like a copy of the spreadsheet. Im a firm believer in the KISS principle!

astropunk said:

NWAleDad - I would like a copy of the spreadsheet. Im a firm believer in the KISS principle!

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if you are interested send me a private message with an e-mail address that i can send an attachment to.

biochemedic said:

If anyone who knows how to code cared to write a program/module that could seamlessly translate ProMash files (*.rec, *.brw) to BeerXML and vice versa that would be a really cool feature for me. .

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Great if you read Dutch
http://www.brouwvisie.nl/

Houblon said:

Great if you read Dutch
http://www.brouwvisie.nl/

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or use bing/google translate

the link below is an english version of the page

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.brouwvisie.nl/&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

dham said:

I have been lurking this forum for a while now and have been really excited about getting into homebrewing. My favorite beer has always been Guinness, but after reading the thread today about how after homebrewing for a while some people have reported Guinness tasting like water, I decided I need to get started ASAP. Unfortunately I do not have enough money budgeted today to buy the initial equipment and ingredients to brew, but I have a strategy.

Click to expand...

1st off welcome to HBT! I am pleased to hear you have an interest in the fantastic hobby of homebrewing. I think it is high time you BECOME a homebrewer and not just dream about it! You say you have no money to get started, I say phooey! People have been making beer since before there was electricity. I bet you can get into this hobby for near nothing invested.
You need:
-Access to a computer, since you are here we can assume you have this.

-You need some food grade, uncolored buckets 3-5 gallons and a few that are 1 gallon or less. Home Depot has them for $5 each or if you wait until no one is busy at a local large grocery store's deli I bet they give you some for free (don't forget the lids!)

-You need a really large pot 6-7 gallons or a couple of large ones 3-5 gallons and a stove. I suggest a spoon as well for stirring. Since every kitchen I have ever been in has these items we can safely assume you do to. If the pots are an issue head to a Harbor Freight they have a set of 4 for $20 but the biggest one is only 5 gallons.

-You will need some nylon tubing 3 feet of 3/8 should be just fine. I think it is about .15 a foot...also at Home Depot. While you are there grab some paint strainer bags, the big 5 gallon ones, they are another $2.

Next comes the expensive trip to the LHBS. You need a thermometer that can handle +220F temps. I think these are about $4. Do not forget the wing capper and some caps (another $20). Grab some camden tabs I think a small bottle will run about $3 and some onestep sanitizer for another $5.

-head on up to see Deathbrewers sticky on easy partial mash or all grain brewing.

Now all you need is the ingredients; grains are less than $2 a pound (you will need 12 lbs or less), hops - 1 oz should be plenty for a stout prob another $5 and a dry yeast pack is about $5.

So, I see the "I am broke" reason as 100% BS as to why I can not brew...You can collect aluminum cans on the way to the plasma center and get enough cash up for this stuff in under a week.

dham said:

I know how to program, so I think I can make something that is either valuable enough to a few of you out there to pitch a few bucks my way, or maybe just collect some money from ads to support my brewing hobby.

Click to expand...

Since you know how to program, you know that software requires not just programing but alot of testing, to get it to work right. This is a competitive market as there are tons of free/open source software that people like me use. I would rather use free software and buy more ingredients than pay anything for pixles. IMO a beer in my glass is better than a JPEG pic of one on my PC...There are also much better ways if you are willing to sacrifice time to help mitigate the costs. Liker drying your spent grains and making all your own baked goods. I have not bought a loaf of bread in over 6 months...I also make my own crackers and cookies. While this does not directly reduce the cost of the beer it can open some funds form the grocery bill to be applied to beer ingredients.

dham said:

An initial thought I had was an Android phone application that reads in a BeerXML recipe (like from beersmith) and sets up all the timers you need on brew day.

Click to expand...

So you are going to make me a fancy watch? hmmm I have a watch now and a clock also a digital timer I think all of these were less than $3 each...

dham said:

Then I thought it would be even cooler if I made a website that could be accessed from any phone (android, iphone, windows mobile) or any computer (windows, linux, mac, ipad) that could read in a BeerXML recipe and start some timers from the webpage (and shoot you a text message or something to let you know when the timer is up). Maybe this webpage could also someday let you tweak and create recipes once I learn more about how that process works from my own brewing days . There are probably 1000 more exciting things that it could eventually do.

Click to expand...

err a website? I already have access to the best brewing website on the internet. It has a search engine and the largest recipe base I have seen. the url is: http://www.homebrewtalk.com . The best part is it is free but if you choose to upgrade your account you can, it helps support the site.

dham said:

Anyway, you all are the pro's, so tell me what your thoughts on those two things (what you like, don't like, would you use it, would you pay for it?). I also encourage you to speak up about any interesting things you think would be useful to the homebrewing crowd. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Things that would be useful to the homebrewing crowd: unrestricted brewing limits and self distribution are the 2 biggest things we are lacking. As for a comp-u-brew program, I see no need for one beyond what exists now. I would never pay for one.

The last little wisdom I will leave you with is this: Those that brew for the love of profit seldom do; Those that brew for the love of brewing always profit. (This includes all the stuff that goes with the hobby.)

GL