Exploring "no chill" brewing

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I just canceled my order for the time being. It seems they are waiting on the replacement caps to come in and the representative said it will be a couple of weeks. I'm looking for alternative locations in the mean time. I found a distributor list, although I'm not sure if any of the companies sale retail. Here is the info page about the product from that site. YMMV on getting some from a distributor if they have a retail department. Just wanted to put that info out there as it might be helpful for those who want to purchase from alternate locations if possible.
 
juvinious said:
I just canceled my order for the time being. It seems they are waiting on the replacement caps to come in and the representative said it will be a couple of weeks. I'm looking for alternative locations in the mean time. I found a distributor list, although I'm not sure if any of the companies sale retail. Here is the info page about the product from that site. YMMV on getting some from a distributor if they have a retail department. Just wanted to put that info out there as it might be helpful for those who want to purchase from alternate locations if possible.
Click to expand...


This Winpack product is better for a No Chill container

Hedpak 5 and 6 Gallon Bottles for liquid storage and shelf dispensing - Hedwin Corporation
 
Hmm after searching up more info on these plastic containers it seems they meet some UN rating and there exist variations of the closed/tight head containers.

The rectangular ones are numbered: 3H1/Y1.8/100

The round ones are numbered: 1H1/Y1.8/100

Now after reading more on the product the max recommended temp of the liquid which can be placed in the container is between 160F and 180F.

If you do a search on those numbers you will find various plastic companies that offer them and their descriptions. Plus I also found them at varying prices which I've seen the 6 Gallon one as low as $10 which includes the cap. They all look the same, so I'm not sure how the winpaks vary in this regard since the ones listed on US plastics and Hedwin sites don't list their max temp rating. But do list it as 1H1 for the round one and 3H1 for the rectangular ones. While I'm not immediately too concerned because I want to give it a go I would like to see further information from prolonged use and on whether the continual introduction of 180F+ liquid would cause it to break down or deteriorate, eventually leading to off tastes in the beer.
 
If they're rated for 180F then I would have no problems putting 190F liquid in them. If that 160F to 180F rating is for continuous exposure then it's definitely not a concern. Storage containers are usually underspec'd by a decent margin. If Pol is getting to pitching temps within 24hrs then that first 10F drop from 190F to 180F happens very quickly.

I'll be trying this out next week. I've actually been using the winpack's as fermenters for about a year now and have 2 that are unused.

Great thread all!
 
My brew and store experiment is a go for this weekend, I will post pics and updates as it occurs. Right now I am waiting to see if a couple friends of mine want to come over and brew, but right now I am looking at:

10gal ESB (normal chill)
10gal Nut Brown (no-chill and store)
10gal Am. Wheat (If friends come to brew)
 
Brew day was a sucess! My friends did come over, so we split 3 batches and went home with 15 gallons each. We decided to no-chill the ESB instead of the nut brown, so each of us has a hot packed cube. He plans on fermenting in the next week or so, and I will probably hold mine for at least 3-4 weeks. I will post a few pics later, and will update as things happen.
 
Where do you guys recommend getting 6 gal ones? 5 seems a little small to me since after fermentation is done your only going to get about 4.5 in the keg.
 
Jonnio said:
Where do you guys recommend getting 6 gal ones? 5 seems a little small to me since after fermentation is done your only going to get about 4.5 in the keg.
Click to expand...

I think everyone is using the 5 gallonsones for storage anad cooling only... then placing it in a fermentor.

I bought mine, detailed in my threads and posts, at USPlastics. 6 gallons, $15.
 
I'm not going to address the whys & wherefores of keeping the wort stored unfermented for that extended a period. I'll just say that flooding any empty space inside the storage container with CO2 sounds like a great idea.
 
The Pol said:
I think everyone is using the 5 gallonsones for storage anad cooling only... then placing it in a fermentor.

I bought mine, detailed in my threads and posts, at USPlastics. 6 gallons, $15.
Click to expand...

Yeah - I figured that, but even still, 5 gal of wort out of the kettle is going to come up pretty shy.

I will just stick with USP then - I thought I remember reading that they were on back order, but I can wait.
 
Last I heard the hangup was on the caps... and I think they should be in. Call em up, they are good folk.
 
awesome, I will try and get some on order this week too - I would like to start doing 10 gal batches, put it in a couple cubes and ferment as needed
 
Jonnio said:
Yeah - I figured that, but even still, 5 gal of wort out of the kettle is going to come up pretty shy.
Click to expand...

Just FYI, when the 5 gallon container was filled to capacity and all gas expelled, it held closer to 5.5 gallons. The process worked out MUCH smoother than I was imagining, and even though at the time it seemed like I had a bit of gas still trapped inside, as it cooled it contracted down so that VERY little gas is left inside. Purging the container with CO2 is really not going to buy you much of anything except assuage fears of the "hot side aeration" demon who seems to lurk unseen:D
 
Just a thought, but if I were planning on using the cube as a fermenter, couldn't I just unscrew the cap a little to allow CO2 to escape? Seems like it would work the same as tin foil, which is what I used on my last batch.
 
My order shipped last night, it should be here thursday. Pretty psyched, I'll be doing my westvleteren 12 and 8 clones this saturday in them no chill style.
 
chefchris said:
Just a thought, but if I were planning on using the cube as a fermenter, couldn't I just unscrew the cap a little to allow CO2 to escape? Seems like it would work the same as tin foil, which is what I used on my last batch.
Click to expand...

Seems sound. You could still use tin foil. But in either case, the wort needs to be aerated just prior to fermentation.

I placed an order with USP earlier in the week and plan to give the "no chill" thingy a go myself.
 
chucke said:
Seems sound. You could still use tin foil. But in either case, the wort needs to be aerated just prior to fermentation.

I placed an order with USP earlier in the week and plan to give the "no chill" thingy a go myself.
Click to expand...

Cool. I usually use a paint stirrer but it doesn't fit in the container so I bought one of the ones that the blades fold up to fit in carboys. Works good.


Oh, and an update. I kegged my first No Chill and tastes just fine. No off flavors that me or my girlfriend can taste. It's not overly hopped or anything, just a good session beer, so nothing to mask any off flavors. Looks like I'm hooked on No Chill.

:mug:
 
Bobby_M said:
Why not just put the lid on the kettle until it cools? It's already heat sanitized.
Click to expand...

That's a very good question. There's got to be like a 0.05% increase in the likelihood of infection, though. :confused: One less thing to clean and keep. hmmmmm.

edit: good idea if you're pitching pretty quick (24 hours)...airtight container still has to be the winner for prolonged storage, though.
 
It sounded like the primary reason for moving to a heat capable vessel was just to keep it there for the cooling period (what, 24 hours?). I think moving the beer at all is where the infection potential comes in.
 
Bobby_M said:
It sounded like the primary reason for moving to a heat capable vessel was just to keep it there for the cooling period (what, 24 hours?). I think moving the beer at all is where the infection potential comes in.
Click to expand...

Agreed. If its late and I don't want to go through the chill process, I just put the lid on while still boiling, then turn the heat off and go to bed. Then pitch in the morning, or when I get home from work. My lid is a little dented now, so sometimes I'll wrap the lid<->pot interface with some aluminum foil to keep bugs out...

I do like the no-chill thing, and if I was to store for more than overnight, I'd definitely do that. I'm tempted to build up another stage in the pipeline using no-chill, but otherwise, eh.

It's a good way to save some water though!

It's also a big winner if you don't have a lid!
 
Bobby_M said:
It sounded like the primary reason for moving to a heat capable vessel was just to keep it there for the cooling period (what, 24 hours?). I think moving the beer at all is where the infection potential comes in.
Click to expand...

Moving the wort into a cube allows storage for days or weeks. It adds another set of options.

Also, for someone just getting into brewing, a $10-$12 cube *may* be more attractive than a wort chiller.
 
Well, I suppose that you COULD leave the wort in the kettle to let it cool for 24 hours. But, it doesnt make a lot of sense.

#1. If you are just cooling it for 24 hours, then just put it HOT in a 6 gallon HDPE fermentor, this will help to heat santize the fermentor, which is better than running cool wort into a fermentor, right?

#2. You arent dirtying more vessels, the HDPE no chill container, IS your fermentor, you need it anyway.

#3. If the ambient temp is 80F or 90F... your wort isnt going to "chill" in the kettle, you need to get it moved to your fermenting fridge where you can drop the temp. to help it cool in time.

Just my $.02
 
Yo Adamjab,

I ordered this week and it shipped in a day or two. I got two 6 gal winpak's and 2 extra caps. You should definately send them an email to see what's going on.

-BigCask
 
The Pol said:
Well, I suppose that you COULD leave the wort in the kettle to let it cool for 24 hours. But, it doesnt make a lot of sense.

#1. If you are just cooling it for 24 hours, then just put it HOT in a 6 gallon HDPE fermentor, this will help to heat santize the fermentor, which is better than running cool wort into a fermentor, right?

#2. You arent dirtying more vessels, the HDPE no chill container, IS your fermentor, you need it anyway.

#3. If the ambient temp is 80F or 90F... your wort isnt going to "chill" in the kettle, you need to get it moved to your fermenting fridge where you can drop the temp. to help it cool in time.

Just my $.02
Click to expand...

I thought that you purged all the air from the no chill container, and that the container was sized to hold just all the wort with no dead space. Hence, it wouldn't be used as a fermenter...

If I have a 5.5 gallon batch, I probably won't be fermenting in a 6 gallon container. But if I have a 7 gallon container, can I really squeeze it down enough so that its *just* the wort in the container? Are they really that flexible? Cause that would be cool.

With regards to #3, with an ambient of 80 degrees, just leaving the wort in my kettle has always had the wort at 80 degrees by the time I woke up the next morning (8 gallon pot 5.5 gallon batches). No need to put it in the fridge, just turn the burner off and walk away (I brew on my stove indoors). I mean, it might be a few degrees above 80, but pour it in the fermenter, pitch, and put in my swamp cooler chiller and you're at the right temperature. Ambient in my house is typically close to 70 first thing in the morning, so it works well to pitch then.

I also call foul on using the fridge to help chill in "no chill" brewing!!!! FOUL! Cheater! :D
 
kaiser423 said:
I also call foul on using the fridge to help chill in "no chill" brewing!!!! FOUL! Cheater! :D
Click to expand...

I move mine to my fermentation cabinet the morning after at ~90 degrees. That evening, I pull it out at ferm temp, transfer to primary, aerate, and pitch. Simple! Why wouldn't you use the fridge?
 
MMW said:
I move mine to my fermentation cabinet the morning after at ~90 degrees. That evening, I pull it out at ferm temp, transfer to primary, aerate, and pitch. Simple! Why wouldn't you use the fridge?
Click to expand...

'twas a joke. He's "chilling" the no-chill wort, however slightly with the fridge to bring it down to temps faster. I don't think that it violates the spirit of no-chill brewing, but I thought that I might as well call foul on such a minor infraction.
 
The Pol said:
Well, I suppose that you COULD leave the wort in the kettle to let it cool for 24 hours. But, it doesnt make a lot of sense.

#1. If you are just cooling it for 24 hours, then just put it HOT in a 6 gallon HDPE fermentor, this will help to heat santize the fermentor, which is better than running cool wort into a fermentor, right?

#2. You arent dirtying more vessels, the HDPE no chill container, IS your fermentor, you need it anyway.

#3. If the ambient temp is 80F or 90F... your wort isnt going to "chill" in the kettle, you need to get it moved to your fermenting fridge where you can drop the temp. to help it cool in time.

Just my $.02
Click to expand...


#1, 2. I was referring to those that may have been using that 5 gallon cube for chilling and not fermenting as you've stated in a previous post. That sounded like an intermediate holding/racking prior to pitching which I think is a wasted step if that was the intent.

#3. I have to think if one was trying to avoid buying a wort chiller for cost reasons, they probably won't have a fermenting fridge either. I could be wrong there. Even once you have the fridge, chilling 5 gallons from 90 to 68F isn't exactly free either.
 
BigCask said:
Yo Adamjab,

I ordered this week and it shipped in a day or two. I got two 6 gal winpak's and 2 extra caps. You should definately send them an email to see what's going on.

-BigCask
Click to expand...


Got all of the stuff today! Plus an extra 5' of silicon hose for free!
 
I read most of this. Seemed like a good idea. THEN I read anther thread about a 7 gal stainless conical fermenter for dirt cheap. Right now I do 10+ gallon batches in converted kegs. I open ferment in one too. I want to go to closed ferment but love the stainless. SO I ordered the 7 gal conical. I also found the 5 gal cubes locally.

Next brew will be 11.5 gallons wort. First 5 go into the cube hot. The rest will be cooled and go into the NEW Conical. This will also give me a chance to compare yeasts with the exact same wort. Now I will be able to dry hop in the primary after fermentation is done and the yeast has been drawn off the bottom. Its Win Win for me!

It takes me just as long to prepare and clean up for a 10 gallon all grain batch as five. That part will be the same. My mach tun is a 1/4 keg which I am used to and works great. Efficiency has been hanging at 83%. I don't want to mess with that.

Thanks for all I have learned here in just a few weeks.

David :)
 
I use a 5 gallon HDPE container. I put it in my fermentation chamber (it's a school milk cooler - could fit 10 buckets in it) along with my other fermenting stuff. The cooler keeps the other things at my desired temp and cools the wort in less than 18 hours (not sure exactly how long, but that's the soonest I've pitched). I move to a bucket for fermenting - I usually cube hop and have about a quart or two of trub in the cube. I'll probably buy at least one container like The Pol has and try it that way. This is so much easier than screwing around with my plate chiller.

Ass for Bobby_M's suggestion, I'd thought about just leaving it in the put as well. I just like to get it all cleaned up on brew day. I'm all electric so not sure if the element would like being submerged in wort for 24 hours.
 
I used my two this weekend for the westvleteren clones. Works well it seems, although the two containers sucked in on themselves making them distorted. They look funny I hope this doesn't have adverse effects on the unit with continual use.
 
juvinious said:
I used my two this weekend for the westvleteren clones. Works well it seems, although the two containers sucked in on themselves making them distorted. They look funny I hope this doesn't have adverse effects on the unit with continual use.
Click to expand...

Did you get the Winpaks? They will be fine.
 

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