wYeast 1214 and Chimay

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mdf191

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I have searched all over the forums, and I have found that you can indeed steal Chimay yeast from a bottle and it is the primary yeast strain. But I havent found if anyone really thinks its worth it? Is Wyest 1214 virtually identical, to Chimay? Does anyone have any insight into this question? Because if Wyeast has already beat me to the source, im thinking why risk it.
 
I am currently brewing a batch of belgian ale with some chimay yeast obtained from a bottle of chimay red.

I haven't made any beers with the wyeast version but i have to say im blown away by early samples of this brew so much cloves, esters and complexity.

I looked around the net before embarking on this and saw one or two references to the bottle chimay yeast producing much more chimay like character than the wyeast version (not surprising really i suppose).

When you get the yeast from the bottle you are getting the yeast the monks are actually using today and not some harvested version that wyeast collected several years ago which in all probability has mutated to be slightly different.

Go ahead i say, its cheap, easy and fun, just be sure and scale it up slowly until you get a good 2litre culture and be very carful about sanitation (taste before you pitch).
 
delboy said:
I am currently brewing a batch of belgian ale with some chimay yeast obtained from a bottle of chimay red.

I haven't made any beers with the wyeast version but i have to say im blown away by early samples of this brew so much cloves, esters and complexity.

I looked around the net before embarking on this and saw one or two references to the bottle chimay yeast producing much more chimay like character than the wyeast version (not surprising really i suppose).

When you get the yeast from the bottle you are getting the yeast the monks are actually using today and not some harvested version that wyeast collected several years ago which in all probability has mutated to be slightly different.

Go ahead i say, its cheap, easy and fun, just be sure and scale it up slowly until you get a good 2litre culture and be very carful about sanitation (taste before you pitch).
Click to expand...


I doubt it's mutated, I think the fact that they can sell so much yeast professionally is because they take care of their yeast, very, very well. Other than getting some beer with your yeast, it's not cheaper. A bottle of chimay/4 pack of chimay is more expensive than a smack pack. AT least here.
 
I'd be surprised if it hasn't mutated, thats what microbes do, nothing to do with how well wyeast look after the yeast, its just one of those things.

I work in a lab and even our mammalian cell lines (mammalian cells ain't exactly known for their high mutation rates) we use in tissue culture change reasonably quickly, 10-20 passages is enough to bring about completely different growth patterns etc so much so that we constantly dump them and go back to an earlier passage number.

With microbes the whole process is a lot quicker i can turn on the expression of a gene in my bugs and left to their own devices the bugs can quickly mutate sometimes overnight to switch it back off again. Kind of cool seeing evolution occuring overnight in a flask :rockin: .
 
Ó Flannagáin said:
I suspect chimay's strain is mutating as well then?
Click to expand...

Yes the chimay strain will be changing over time as well, that said it has already evolved to the niche the chimay monks have provided it with ie wort composition, fermentation temperature, water chemistry, depth of fermenting vessel etc etc.
 
delboy said:
Yes the chimay strain will be changing over time as well, that said it has already evolved to the niche the chimay monks have provided it with ie wort composition, fermentation temperature, water chemistry, depth of fermenting vessel etc etc.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty good point. I listened to an interview with one of the yeast lab guys on one of JamilZ's podcasts and he said that the same strain of yeast will react differently based upon the water, wort and fermenting vessel from brewery to brewery. They adapt to their surroundings I guess. So you may not be able to perfectly duplicate what the brewery gets by using the same yeast, yours may act a little bit different due to it's surroundings.
 
Thanks for the replies! I think im going to give the chimay culturing a shot! does anyone have any good detailed links on the process? I understand the main points... should I be using yeast from alot of bottles or just one for a 5 gal batch?
 
I use Wyeast #1214 on a regualr basis in my Belgian Abbey Ale. My recipe tastes exactly like Chimay, in my opinion.

:cross:


I have it posted in my recipes. Give it a click!

:mug:
 
I just pitched Wyeast #1214 last night... how long does this take to get going? This is my second batch of homebrew, so I am pretty new. I used Safale S-04 in my first batch (Brown Ale) and it took off right away. It has been almost 24 hours now since I pitched the Wyeast 1214 Belgian Ale yeast, and still no bubbling in the airlock????????
 
I have been using Wyeast 1214 on a couple of different brews. Around December I used it on an extract version of a tripel, and more recently this past week I recovered some from a bottle of that tripel to pitch onto an all-grain wit I put together. In December, when the temperatures were lower (60s) it took about three days to finally get going. This past week it took about a day and a half to two days in the 70s before I saw any airlock activity.
 
I know this is an old thread, but thought I'd say something here since I recently posted about the slow activity of 1214. I've had a starter sitting in a fermentation locker for 2 days and so far I've not seen any activity, but other posters tell me 1214 is just very slow to start and has a distinctive scent like meat and old socks. I'll be pitching today or tomorrow.
 
I'm brewing a BIG holiday beer with 1214. I used a 2.4L starter and it was bubbling within 3 hours, temp at 67F. Seems like making a proper starter and aerating will get this strain going pretty quickly.

Last time I used 1214 in a Dubbel it also started this quick and finished around 1.010 doing extract brewing.
 
@mmcshmi11: Interesting. I made a huge starter for that beer and man did it take a while to take off. Good beer in the end. I've experienced this only with this yeast strain and lager yeasts.

On the other side of things, last night I pitched American Ale yeast from a local brewer and it was out of control in 2 hours!
 
Did u aerate? And how long beforehand did you make the starter? I built mine up twice and decanted. It was less than 12 hrs from the time I started building my starter up with fresh wort until pitching time. So the yeast were active and ready to go!
 
WLP500 Trappist Ale is supposedly similar to WY1214 Belgain Ale, which is the Chimay strain. (Source)

However, I've heard that Chris White obtained the Chimay strain before Chimay switched over to cylindroconical fermenters, while Wyeast obtained it after the switch. When Chimay made the switch, they scoped their yeast and selected for optimal performance in conical fermenters, rather than focusing entirely on flavor/authenticity. I don't have a link to support this info; it's from a brew club member who I'd describe as a "walking beer encyclopedia." This meaning that WLP500 is more authentic to the older pre-conical fermented abbey ales of Chimay, and the WY1214 reflects the newer strain selected for conical fermentation performance. I won't guarantee this information, but I did hear this from a reliable beer geek/brewer. Can anyone confirm this?

Regardless, I've done side by side comparisons of the same wort in two different fermenters with the WLP500 and WY1214. I have to say that ultimately the WLP500 is better IMO. The WY version takes on that abbey aroma and flavor sooner, but doesn't age as well. The WL version initiates with a somewhat bubblegum ester that diminishes with some age, and ends up as the best tasting (and closest representation to classic Chimay flavor) homemade Trappist style abbey ale I've had.
 
Tiber_Brew said:
WLP500 Trappist Ale is supposedly similar to WY1214 Belgain Ale, which is the Chimay strain. (Source)

However, I've heard that Chris White obtained the Chimay strain before Chimay switched over to cylindroconical fermenters, while Wyeast obtained it after the switch. When Chimay made the switch, they scoped their yeast and selected for optimal performance in conical fermenters, rather than focusing entirely on flavor/authenticity. I don't have a link to support this info; it's from a brew club member who I'd describe as a "walking beer encyclopedia." This meaning that WLP500 is more authentic to the older pre-conical fermented abbey ales of Chimay, and the WY1214 reflects the newer strain selected for conical fermentation performance. I won't guarantee this information, but I did hear this from a reliable beer geek/brewer. Can anyone confirm this?

Regardless, I've done side by side comparisons of the same wort in two different fermenters with the WLP500 and WY1214. I have to say that ultimately the WLP500 is better IMO. The WY version takes on that abbey aroma and flavor sooner, but doesn't age as well. The WL version initiates with a somewhat bubblegum ester that diminishes with some age, and ends up as the best tasting (and closest representation to classic Chimay flavor) homemade Trappist style abbey ale I've had.
Click to expand...
Sounds like BS to me. Two guys at a centuries-old brewery: hey cool, new cylindro-conical jibjabs! Let's just switch up our yeast willy nilly because what the hell, these are a different shape. Wtf, yeast don't know/care if your fermenter has a friggin' cone at the bottom. The yeast cultures go back decades if not centuries. Hey look, new great-grand baby in the family. Time to swap out old grandma! Also, if there were any differences between the cultures wyeast and white labs are selling for this style, my guess is that they both come from different breweries vs. before and after some shift. Otherwise a single pouch from one supplier could seed the other's yeast bank without even raising any eyebrows. IME, 1214 is more phenolic and more attenuative than WLP500, because they are not the same thing and come from different sources. Your buddy is wrong.
 
Nice necro. We've learned some stuff over the past 9 years.

WLP500, 1214, and Lalbrew Abbaye are genetically almost identical, a unique cerevisiae x kudriavzevii hybrid, reference the following sites and Hittinger study linked within. If they ain't exactly identical, they're at least sisters.

http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4030
http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4112
Discard old legends and lore. Genomic science proves it wrong about 90% of the time. Here at least is one case where it depends on which story you want to believe.
 

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