"Food Grade" plastic water bottles?

Hey Cats,

I make cider and other brews in my glass carbouys. My sister wants to make a simple cider soon, and right after having this conversation with her, I found two 5-gallon plastic water jugs in the recycling area of her apartment building.

They were used for water, the typical sort that sits neck-down in one of those familiar water coolers. They are clear, but held up to the light there is a slilght blue tint to the plastic. The label on the bottom says "Food Grade", along with some numbers.

Yeah, I know it would be best to go get some glass carbouys, but for a first time project, do you think using these plastic water jugs as a primary fermenter (no long storage) would be ok? If anything in the plastic were going to leach into the cider, I would assume they wouldn't be using these for drinking water. (We don't plan on boiling anything)

Thanks for any thoughts...

Myself, if it has a triangle on the bottom with a 1 or a 2 in it, then ok. Anything else and I wouldn't use it. 1 = PET or PETE, 2 = HDPE, and both are considered "food grade".

Thanks! I'll double check for that symbol. If my sister likes the result and finds it worthwhile, these bottles will get her started but will probably only be temporary. Or heck, I'll steal 'em back once she has glass, if they're safe to use.

Yep, the grade of the plastic is key.

Holy CARP, I was scrolling up after my post to go back to New Posts and thought I had posted another response to this and realized UpstateMike has quoted me!!! Suddenly I feel so special!

UpstateMike said:

Myself, if it has a triangle on the bottom with a 1 or a 2 in it, then ok. Anything else and I wouldn't use it. 1 = PET or PETE, 2 = HDPE, and both are considered "food grade".

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Here in Europe 2 HDPE, 4 LDPE and 5 PP are plastic types used for foodgrade and then the foodgradsymbol is a added 'knife and fork' symbol. 1 PET are used for soda bottles.

(If it is a container not made for food but made from a safe plastic the producent can put additives in to make it resistent against e.g. sunlight/UV and there are no rules about informing about those additives so as a consumer you cant know).

If it is labeled food grade I would feel comfortable using it.

(My yeast fermenting bucket is labled 5 PP foodgrade and can restain 100 degree celsius).

UpstateMike said:

Myself, if it has a triangle on the bottom with a 1 or a 2 in it, then ok. Anything else and I wouldn't use it. 1 = PET or PETE, 2 = HDPE, and both are considered "food grade".

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No they are not. Those are material designations, not food grade designations. Just because containers are made of PET or HDPE does not mean they are food grade. Their previous use is a far more accurate indication.

Food grade containers are made on food grade production lines with virgin materials and food grade processes (release agents for example). Non food grade containers (i.e. paint and oil buckets) may be made on the same line just to save money but food grade containers have to be made on food grade production lines.

As said before, the main indicator on whether a container is food grade is it's past history. In this specific case, it is potable water, hence it's going to be food grade. If this same container had been used to hold paint, oils, fuel etc., then in no case will the container ever by food grade, regardless of material type. An excellent example of this are the US Military Water Can (MWC) and Military Fuel Can (MFC). Both are made of the exact same material (HDPE) and are made by the same company (Scepter) and perhaps even on the same production line. Guess which one is certified as food grade?

Hope this helps.

FTG-05 said:

An excellent example of this are the US Military Water Can (MWC) and Military Fuel Can (MFC). Both are made of the exact same material (HDPE) and are made by the same company (Scepter) and perhaps even on the same production line. Guess which one is certified as food grade?

Hope this helps.

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The more expensive one?

whoaru99 said:

The more expensive one?

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No, the cheaper one. The MFCs are now banned in the US, so prices have skyrocketed. What used to sell for $25 is now $50-$75 each, and that's the used price. Brand new MWCs can be bought for $24 last time I checked.

Cidre said:

Here in Europe 2 HDPE, 4 LDPE and 5 PP are plastic types used for foodgrade and then the foodgradsymbol is a added 'knife and fork' symbol. 1 PET are used for soda bottles.

(If it is a container not made for food but made from a safe plastic the producent can put additives in to make it resistent against e.g. sunlight/UV and there are no rules about informing about those additives so as a consumer you cant know).

If it is labeled food grade I would feel comfortable using it.

(My yeast fermenting bucket is labled 5 PP foodgrade and can restain 100 degree celsius).

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#5 here is also Polypropylene (PP). It is a material that is used in bumpers, car interior trim, industrial fibers. Not something I would recommend. I'm not saying don't use it, just that I personally wouldn't as long as there other choices available. For the record, i use glass carboys for primary and secondary fermentation.

UpstateMike said:

#5 here is also Polypropylene (PP). It is a material that is used in bumpers, car interior trim, industrial fibers. Not something I would recommend. I'm not saying don't use it, just that I personally wouldn't as long as there other choices available. For the record, i use glass carboys for primary and secondary fermentation.

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That a material is used for other purposes, does not say anything about its safety for eg. food containers.
Glass are also used for chemical containers, cars and industrial uses but is still a safe material regardless of the other purposes.
PP even though used for other things (probably with additives) - it can also be used for food - the key is that it is labled 'food grade'. (Another thing PP is used for is baby soothers..)

I use 3gal plastic water bottles I get at Walmart for $7. The 3gal size is convient and can be easily moved by hand and is easier to clean. Of course after leaving room for head space and whats left in the lees you are only left with about 2.5 gal of product.

I've started using 3.5gal square plastic buckets that previously held juice concentrate (Usually cherry. I get them from a local confectionary store, they use it to make jelly fillings) as primaries. I just drill a hole in the top cover for the air lock. Then I rack to the 3gal water bottles for secondary. That leaves me with a full case of wine bottles full per 3gal bottle.

- C. Thomas

UpstateMike said:

Myself, if it has a triangle on the bottom with a 1 or a 2 in it, then ok. Anything else and I wouldn't use it. 1 = PET or PETE, 2 = HDPE, and both are considered "food grade".

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1 PET / PETE can leach antimony.
2 HDPE is just fine.
3 PVC terrible.
4 LDPE is just fine.
5 PP is just fine.
6 PS terrible
7 can be anything.

So I always stick with HDPE, LDPE or Polypropylene. They are all heat safe and food safe and don't leach anything toxic.