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morganamps

morganamps

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After my 3rd kit I think I'm moving on to BIAB

I just want more control over what I'm doing. Extracts are both easy and uninspiring

I don't even know what type of hops I used on the last kit. When they labeled the hops things like flavor or bitters it just makes me feel stupid kind of like calling blue #2 on a paint by numbers painting.
I prefer to call it blue or even indigo
 
I've been doing BIAB for a couple of years now and I agree, kits were a nice way to get started but all grain gives you lots more ways to screw up a brew. A lot more challenging and more fun and I've been able to drink all the beers I've made but it's just the last few that I'm really proud of.
 
BIAB really does open up a whole world of possibilities. It was moving to BIAB that got me interested in the science if brewing. A lot can be done with extract recipe design as well. Use of simple sugar and maltodextrin can be used to adjust attenuation. With extract you don't have to worry about messing up the mash.
 
I'm right there with you just did my first BIAB last night after 2 extract batches...little more complicated, but ultimately more rewarding, at least to me...let you know in a month or so whether or not I was successful at stepping up my game...KCCO
 
Sounds good! Have fun exploring the recipe database on this site! There are lots of great recipes that people have put a considerable amount of time into. Or take some of those recipes and alter/edit them your self. No more paint by numbers!
 
morganamps said:
After my 3rd kit I think I'm moving on to BIAB

I just want more control over what I'm doing. Extracts are both easy and uninspiring

I don't even know what type of hops I used on the last kit. When they labeled the hops things like flavor or bitters it just makes me feel stupid kind of like calling blue #2 on a paint by numbers painting.
I prefer to call it blue or even indigo
Click to expand...

I bought a few kits but ususally did not use the yeast and sometimes other hops.

Even if the recipie did not call for it I steeped grain and made pretty good beer..

I moved on to All-Grain after ten (11) years just because I wanted to brew more like a real brewer and have been very happy.

BUT IMO,,, you can make good beer with extracts...just don't follow their directions...
 
I'm with you OP, I'd like to stick with partial mash recipes for the time being. It was pretty cool having to buy individual ingredients and even toasting some oats in my oven. Reading Palmer's "How to Brew" and Mosher's "Radical Brewing" has been so interesting and informative. I think "uninspiring" is a good word for kits, although to each his own. To use a food analogy, sometimes its easier to pop that pre-made meal in the microwave than to cook something up yourself, fresh.
 
Malty_Dog said:
...Reading Palmer's "How to Brew" and Mosher's "Radical Brewing" has been so interesting and informative.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Also, one of the best home brewing books I've read is Gordon Strong's "Brewing Better Beer" It answers a lot of the questions you'd probably ask a very accomplished home brewer. It's very anecdotal and a great read.

Good luck with the all grain adventure! There's a few more consequences to what you do on brewday (vs. extract), but that's half the fun of this hobby...constantly working on little things to make great beer. My advice is; take extremely detailed notes. Even if it seems silly to write it down, record it so that you can refer back to it when you make a kick ass beer.
 
It all comes down to the quality of the "kits". The run of the mill stuff is going to give lacluster results. One can doctor them but meh. A quality kit can be as good as a quality BiaB. In blind tasting, no one can tell the diffrence in my brews. 90% of the tasters prefered the extract brew in the blind tasting. Like what was said up top, more can go wrong.

Home brewing isnt looked at as a hobby by some people. Some do it out of necessity. We can't get good craft beer at our store or bar. Not unless you want to pay $20+ for a six pack. We have life and other hobbies we have invested in. In the end were all home brewers no matter how far you take it.
 
Kit vs make your own recipe is really a separate topic from extract vs AG. You can certainly make your own extract recipes and learn all about hops and fermenting in the process. You can also buy AG kits and the hops and grains will be labeled similarly to the extract kits.

And honestly, there are people making fantastic, award winning extract brews. If you want to hop into AG, great. It's fun and rewarding. If you are just trying to get away from kits though, you can just as easily make great beer with extract and your own recipe.

It also doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition. I prefer the AG process, but if I can't clear out a good 6 hr block on a weekend, I'll gladly knock out an extract batch on a weeknight.
 
I did the same thing. After nixing a few recipes because I didn't want to use half a can of LME, I decided this was crazy. I'm doing AG from now on so I do not have to force my recipes to meet the ingredient constraints of doing extract. I found BIAB to fairly easy, too. Just wish I had bought my grain mill before my first BIAG...my efficiency was not too impressive on the first AG batch.
 
I went from extract kits to partial mash and all grain after only 2 extract kits.

I felt that with the kits, I was following someone else's instructions to make beer and not really making beer myself.

Granted, with the all grain batches I have done, I still have been following other people's recipes. .. But I still have copious notes taken and plans to tweak at least one of the recipes I have brewed so far.

I've got one brew that I'm really excited to try once it has had a chance to age some. It is an oaked vanilla Bourbon Porter that I thought was pretty good when I tasted the sg sample before kegging.
 
My first batch was a 1gallon AG biab kit that I bought for the purpose of getting my feet wet before my 5gallon kit attempt..but I was so taken by the mashing / sparging that I had to add a mini-mash to the extract kit, and mashed my specialty grains, along with some extra 2row and oats, because I didn't feel like doing extract only was "making beer" (and I dont think badly of extract only brewers, I just have this crazy mad scientist itch and mashing scratches that).

Its like making cookies, you can:
1) Buy cookies (Micro Brew)
2) Buy premade dough (Mr. Beer recipe in a can)
3) Buy premade dough mix (Extract kits with specialty grains)
4) Buy premade dough mix and add your own flair (Extract with Partial mash...I guess this is my beer outlook)
5) Buy eggs / flour / baking soda etc. (All Grain)

and they ALL make good ass cookies, just depends on personal preferences on the process. For the record, I just buy the cookie dough 'tubes' for making cookies.
 
No matter what brewing style you use,you're likely to be doing a recipe for a style of beer that's been done for many centuries before. What's the big deal? Just tweak it to make it your own version of the style. It'd be pretty tough to come up with an all new style nowadays.
And partial mash openes up sooo many possibilities for flavor,aroma & color complexities With that cleaner flavor of half or more of the fermentables coming from fresh wort. Now If I could just get BIAB to make a clearer beer...
 
Beergazzi said:
Its like making cookies, you can:
1) Buy cookies (Micro Brew)
2) Buy premade dough (Mr. Beer recipe in a can)
3) Buy premade dough mix (Extract kits with specialty grains)
4) Buy premade dough mix and add your own flair (Extract with Partial mash...I guess this is my beer outlook)
5) Buy eggs / flour / baking soda etc. (All Grain)

and they ALL make good ass cookies, just depends on personal preferences on the process. For the record, I just buy the cookie dough 'tubes' for making cookies.
Click to expand...
I like your food analogy way better than mine! :mug:
 
My next batch will be BIAB and it's going to be Cream of Three Crops Ale. I have brewed about 8 batches using extract kits. I do have a 10 gal mash tun and have yet to use it. After watching a bunch of videos,,,,I'm thinking BIAB is the way to go for now. My beers from the kits have been so-so. Even though going to the next step, it is going to take an extra hour to fill a carboy.
 
The thing that concerns me the most Is that many can't brew a decent AE beer to save their life. But think partial mash or all grain will magically make it all better. Such is not the case. You need a flair for what flavors will go together,over & above the new processes. Kinda like coming on here as a young noob & can't cook at all. but wanna "brew" beer. guess what?!! It's cooking! Having a basic working knowledge of cooking def helps with brewing. Even though it's "just beer",you have to learn what flavors go together,& basic cooking processes that cary over to brewing.
No matter what the brewing style,you can make bad beer. Changing brewing styles is no guarantee that it'll save you from yourself. Ultimately,YOU are the one that needs to change for the better & make those AE kits or recipes work. Find out what's wrong & do it again. Still not quite right? Do it again. How do you think we get those "tweaked out" recipes right?...:mug:
 
unionrdr said:
The thing that concerns me the most Is that many can't brew a decent AE beer to save their life. But think partial mash or all grain will magically make it all better. Such is not the case. You need a flair for what flavors will go together,over & above the new processes.
Click to expand...

And that is the reason I'm done with kits. Not so much the process although moving to AG will help me better understand the ingredients.

I want to know the differences between flavors and the best way for me to do that is to stop buying cake in a box and get some flour and eggs and sugar and a sifter and maybe a better cake pan and then if I'm gonna do it right I need a new oven and cooling racks and as long as I'm making cakes I should make enough for everyone I know just in case they all come over at the same time. I guess I'll also need some way to store them that also makes them easier to serve.......
 
Am I the only person that brews all sorts of brews? I brew AG, PM, and extract on a regular basis. It all depends on my time constraints, where I am, who I'm brewing with etc.

I've learned more about building recipes and perfecting hop usage using extract than I ever could with AG. I regularly introduce people to brewing and always start them with a extract recipe of my own with printed instructions that I typed up. I love beer, I love making it, how I make it doesn't really matter to me.

I see too many people looking down their nose at extract brewers saying it's not real brewing doesn't taste as goods etc. Anyone who thinks like that, I challenge you to brew a better AG than I can extract.
 
unionrdr said:
The thing that concerns me the most Is that many can't brew a decent AE beer to save their life. But think partial mash or all grain will magically make it all better. Such is not the case. You need a flair for what flavors will go together,over & above the new processes. Kinda like coming on here as a young noob & can't cook at all. but wanna "brew" beer. guess what?!! It's cooking! Having a basic working knowledge of cooking def helps with brewing. Even though it's "just beer",you have to learn what flavors go together,& basic cooking processes that cary over to brewing.
No matter what the brewing style,you can make bad beer. Changing brewing styles is no guarantee that it'll save you from yourself. Ultimately,YOU are the one that needs to change for the better & make those AE kits or recipes work. Find out what's wrong & do it again. Still not quite right? Do it again. How do you think we get those "tweaked out" recipes right?...:mug:
Click to expand...

I don't think moving to AG will magically make my beers better. I just hate compromising on recipes because I don't want to use 1.5 lbs. of LME that comes in a 3.3 lb. can. I did that with my IPA and wish I had just followed the AG version of the recipe instead. That is why I tried the BIAB method on the next brew. Still not sure if that brew will be any good (still fermenting) but I will at least know that any faults are not from modifying the recipe to make it convenient to do as PM.
 
Ridire said:
I don't think moving to AG will magically make my beers better. I just hate compromising on recipes because I don't want to use 1.5 lbs. of LME that comes in a 3.3 lb. can. I did that with my IPA and wish I had just followed the AG version of the recipe instead. That is why I tried the BIAB method on the next brew. Still not sure if that brew will be any good (still fermenting) but I will at least know that any faults are not from modifying the recipe to make it convenient to do as PM.
Click to expand...

I never made that claim either. I just think with extracts you lose the intimate knowledge of exactly what is going into your beer.

Is the extract from pale malt or something else? Etc.

Much like the cookie analogy above. Any option can be good, but with only one do you know exactly what went into them.
 
Ridire said:
I don't think moving to AG will magically make my beers better. I just hate compromising on recipes because I don't want to use 1.5 lbs. of LME that comes in a 3.3 lb. can.
Click to expand...

there is a lot more to kits and extract than 3.3lb cans.
 
amandabab said:
there is a lot more to kits and extract than 3.3lb cans.
Click to expand...

I know. But there are a lot of recipes I've looked into that call for 1.5 lb. of LME. I go to the brew store and see 3.3 lb cans. So, do I just not make that recipe? Do I waste $5 of LME? Do I alter the recipe to make it work with what I have? I just think it's easier to get where I want to be by using all grain.

Not saying there is anything wrong with doing extract or by doing kits but I want to use clone recipes and tweak things a little, etc. and I think all grain gives me more opportunity to do those things.
 
PM is pretty good so far. Nothing wrong with cutting out half the extract. Still using extract is not a bad thing,as seems evident from a post near the end of the previous page. I wonder how many would be caught in a lie if I looked back to see how many & who bad mouthed AE. Denial is the easiest thing in the world. I still say if you can't make good beer with AE then you ain't doin it right.
Yeah,I like partial mash,but a nearly all extract brew is kinda nice now & then with what I know now.
 
Ridire said:
I know. But there are a lot of recipes I've looked into that call for 1.5 lb. of LME. I go to the brew store and see 3.3 lb cans. So, do I just not make that recipe? Do I waste $5 of LME? Do I alter the recipe to make it work with what I have? I just think it's easier to get where I want to be by using all grain.

Not saying there is anything wrong with doing extract or by doing kits but I want to use clone recipes and tweak things a little, etc. and I think all grain gives me more opportunity to do those things.
Click to expand...

Double your recipe and make more beer :drunk:

Kits are great for quickly filling your kegs when they run dry. I augment my supply quarterly when big beers or now lagers are taking up my fermenters.

Our local WholePaycheck store actually has BrewersBest 5gal PM kits for $30, 4-5 types and will order more if you ask. Not a bad deal for a 3 hour brew session.

Plus I love the Kit to keg to lips time of 10 days or less ;)
 
Ridire said:
I know. But there are a lot of recipes I've looked into that call for 1.5 lb. of LME. I go to the brew store and see 3.3 lb cans. So, do I just not make that recipe? Do I waste $5 of LME? Do I alter the recipe to make it work with what I have? I just think it's easier to get where I want to be by using all grain.

Not saying there is anything wrong with doing extract or by doing kits but I want to use clone recipes and tweak things a little, etc. and I think all grain gives me more opportunity to do those things.
Click to expand...

Use DME instead. Just need 1.2 lbs of DME and any left over is used for starters. :mug:
 
I started out with partial grain kits. Not intentionally, just didn't know there were even simpler kits out there. When I realized that some kits were all extract, and some pre-hopped I was like, "why?"

My last two beers have been in turn, the least pre-packaged and the most. I did a custom recipe lager in the style of a Sing-Ha, which was very heavy in grains I milled myself in the grain room of my LHBS, with just enough extract to make up the OG I was looking for (I'm not yet set up for AG). Then, for fun, I made NB's Cascade Mt. Imperial IPA, which was pretty much all LME (8oz specialty grains, I think, and that was it). But it was a more complex hop addition, so I was still learning new stuff.

Bottled the lager on Sunday, it's promising. The Imperial IPA is looking to exceed the kit predicted ABV by a couple of points.

As I learn more, I take more variables and play with them, if I understand the other aspects already, it'll generally work out.
 
Okay guys I'm glad I found this thread. These are some questions I have had myself. As far as What I brew I have been using kits that have both DME and LME. They also contain Grain and hops pellets.

So I guess my first question is what type of brewing is this considered? And I hate to sound like the noob but what is BIAB?

Further more to brew this way is a grain mill rquired or can you just purchase the grain already processed? I am wanting to take the next step and move away from the Kits and go I guess AG from what I think that means. But From what I have seen at my LHBS I can purchase the grain already hulled and roasted (again I could be wrong).

Eventually I would like to get to this point but as far as my next steps I was going to purchase all the grain, hops, and DME/LME separatly and create my own "kit" for lack of a better term. And I guess maybe I just answered my own question to some point and that is what I am doing is creating my own Kit.

I don't know. I think I am more confused then when I started. But I also want to be done with kits.
 
Wingnutt73 said:
Okay guys I'm glad I found this thread. These are some questions I have had myself. As far as What I brew I have been using kits that have both DME and LME. They also contain Grain and hops pellets.

So I guess my first question is what type of brewing is this considered? And I hate to sound like the noob but what is BIAB?

Further more to brew this way is a grain mill rquired or can you just purchase the grain already processed? I am wanting to take the next step and move away from the Kits and go I guess AG from what I think that means. But From what I have seen at my LHBS I can purchase the grain already hulled and roasted (again I could be wrong).

Eventually I would like to get to this point but as far as my next steps I was going to purchase all the grain, hops, and DME/LME separatly and create my own "kit" for lack of a better term. And I guess maybe I just answered my own question to some point and that is what I am doing is creating my own Kit.

I don't know. I think I am more confused then when I started. But I also want to be done with kits.
Click to expand...

You currently brew extract with steeping grains from the sounds of it. The next logical step would be either partial mash (partly extract, partly grains to mash) or BIAB (brew in a bag, it's a form of all grain without the expensive equipment) you can buy your grains pre crushed at most lhbs.

You won't need a mill. Just keep in mind that crushed grains have a much shorter shelf life than uncrushed grains do.

For more information on partial mash and brew in a bag I suggest you check out the stickies in the all grain forum, there are some excellent walk throughs there.

If you just want to create your own extract with steeping grains kit by mixing and matching hops extracts and grains that is a great way to learn more about what does what, and exactly what you are looking for.
 
Wingnutt73 said:
Okay guys I'm glad I found this thread. These are some questions I have had myself. As far as What I brew I have been using kits that have both DME and LME. They also contain Grain and hops pellets.

So I guess my first question is what type of brewing is this considered? And I hate to sound like the noob but what is BIAB?

Further more to brew this way is a grain mill rquired or can you just purchase the grain already processed? I am wanting to take the next step and move away from the Kits and go I guess AG from what I think that means. But From what I have seen at my LHBS I can purchase the grain already hulled and roasted (again I could be wrong).

Eventually I would like to get to this point but as far as my next steps I was going to purchase all the grain, hops, and DME/LME separatly and create my own "kit" for lack of a better term. And I guess maybe I just answered my own question to some point and that is what I am doing is creating my own Kit.

I don't know. I think I am more confused then when I started. But I also want to be done with kits.
Click to expand...

Those kits are called "extract with steeping grains". BIAB means "Brew In A Bag". It can be used to do AG full boils,or even partial boil,partial mash biab,which is what I do currently. I mash 5lbs of grains in 2 gallons of water,sparging with 1.5 gallons for 3.5 gallons boil volume. Then add 3 to 3.3 lbs of either DME or LME,respectively. Then top off to 5 or 6 gallons,depending on the recipe.
With AE brews,I use both LME & DME too. I use plain DME in the boil for hop additions (half a 3lb bag). Then add the remaining extracts at flame out. Keeps color lighter & flavors cleaner. I think it sounds like you need more study & experience before moving on to higher levels of brewing. Don't be in a hurry. Just go at your own pace & learn from doing & studying.:mug:
 
See I guess this is where i am getting confused because I do use grain in a Bag. But I guess not to the same amount. I have added to them for my own experience and experimentations. IE I dry hopped one and have added some other flavoring ingredients to another. Both turned out great.

I understand I should take it slow and I am studing on the how to's and what not. I'm currently reading "The Complete Joy of Home Brewing 3rd Edition" I guess I feel like it has been stated in this thread that I am reading and following someone elses instructions and want to make the whole process more my own.

I was planning on starting 2 more batches this weekend. I may just stick with the kits again and try and experiment more with them this time around. Thanks again.
 
no intention of hijacking the thread here, but i am also reading The Complete Joy... (3rd) and am finding it quite disappointing. There seems to be enough left out that had I relied solely on it and my common sense I'd have a disaster fermenting in my basement right now.
 
I am afraid to do all grain. Also I don't know what kind of equipment I need to do it. It all seems confusing, even partial mash. I've done about 4 extract kits and would like to try all grain. It seems I need a lot of money too just to get started.
 
I love BIAB !! I even got a 7.5 gallon Turkey fryer to use on my next one, and will use my old BK to sit the bag in after the mash....My first BIAB is ready to bottle this Saturday 3/23.
 
Ridire said:
I know. But there are a lot of recipes I've looked into that call for 1.5 lb. of LME. I go to the brew store and see 3.3 lb cans. So, do I just not make that recipe? Do I waste $5 of LME?
Click to expand...

Then don't use LME, use DME and just weigh out the amount you will need.
 
BansheeRider said:
I am afraid to do all grain. Also I don't know what kind of equipment I need to do it. It all seems confusing, even partial mash. I've done about 4 extract kits and would like to try all grain. It seems I need a lot of money too just to get started.
Click to expand...

If you have a kettle large enough for full boils, all you need is a cheap strainer bag (some people use paint strainer bags) to do a brew in a bag all grain brew.
 
...or if you only have,say,a 5 gallon kettle,then do what I do-partial boil,partial mash BIAB. I do 5lbs of grains (about 50% of fermentables that equals about 3lbs of DME),& 3lb DME or 3.3lbs LME at flame out to get OG's from 1.044-1.055. With nothing more added to my equipement than a 5G paint strainer bag & a cake cooling rack to go in the bottom of the pot so the bag/grains don't burn.
*Almost forgot,another member listed this handy conversion chart y'all will find handy-http://www.jaysbrewing.com/2011/11/17/lazy-chart-for-converting-dme-lme-grain/
Also look at my today's post in the thread "how many liters in a gallon" for some handy conversion formulas.
 
BansheeRider said:
I am afraid to do all grain. Also I don't know what kind of equipment I need to do it. It all seems confusing, even partial mash. I've done about 4 extract kits and would like to try all grain. It seems I need a lot of money too just to get started.
Click to expand...

All-grain is a lot more intimidating than it should be. I was the same way as you. I put it off, in belief that someday I would be able to sit in on someone else's brew day and get a feel for it. Well, my kids' sports and the one guy I know who does all-grains schedules could never meet up. Finally, he just told me to do it. Gave me links to the water calculators, etc and picked out an easy recipe to get started on. I haven't looked back.

Granted, there are still a ton of things I still am learning, but it honestly made me enjoy the process of brewing even more. It adds about 2 hours on to my brew day, but honestly, the options it has opened up on recipe tuning and refinement have been invaluable.
 
unionrdr said:
...or if you only have,say,a 5 gallon kettle,then do what I do-partial boil,partial mash BIAB. I do 5lbs of grains (about 50% of fermentables that equals about 3lbs of DME),& 3lb DME or 3.3lbs LME at flame out to get OG's from 1.044-1.055. With nothing more added to my equipement than a 5G paint strainer bag & a cake cooling rack to go in the bottom of the pot so the bag/grains don't burn.
*Almost forgot,another member listed this handy conversion chart y'all will find handy-http://www.jaysbrewing.com/2011/11/17/lazy-chart-for-converting-dme-lme-grain/
Also look at my today's post in the thread "how many liters in a gallon" for some handy conversion formulas.
Click to expand...

I am interested in doing this since I have a 5 gal BK. Can you steer me in the right direction as to where I can learn to do this? I'm trying not to hijack this thread :) I also have the 5 gal paint strainer bags that I use for straining my wort.
 

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