digdan
Well-Known Member
My local Home Brew Shop told me that Clarity with AG is determined by the conversion. I would think it was determined by the boil. I would like your two cents.
Unless I'm missing something I don't see how that affects starchdavid_42 said:You'll note that ENZECO® CHILLPROOF uses papain, which is an enzyme that breaks down protein. Consider yourself smacked.
"A stable, functional enzyme preparation, totally soluble in water, formulated for the brewing industry to prevent storage "chill haze". Produced from selected, purified grades of papain."
Baron von BeeGee said:My understanding: the chill haze most people complain about that no amount of conditioning will get rid of is caused by starch. This starch would be a result of lautering before conversion was complete. This is totally inherent of the mash.
david_42 said:You'll note that ENZECO® CHILLPROOF uses papain, which is an enzyme that breaks down protein.
"A stable, functional enzyme preparation, totally soluble in water, formulated for the brewing industry to prevent storage "chill haze". Produced from selected, purified grades of papain."
My understanding is that starch won't fall out of solution, but protein-based haze will. I believe once you get starch haze there isn't much in the average homebrewer's arsenal that will get rid of it. I imagine filtering would.Kaiser said:So starch starts for fall out of solution when it gets cold?
Baron von BeeGee said:My understanding is that starch won't fall out of solution, but protein-based haze will. I believe once you get starch haze there isn't much in the average homebrewer's arsenal that will get rid of it. I imagine filtering would.
Baron von BeeGee said:I believe starch haze may be reduced by warming the beer, but should still be apparent. One easy way to tell if your beer is afflicted with starch haze is to sacrifice an ounce or two to an iodine test.
I didn't think you were a Newf, Cheyco. You know what we say (Newfies) If you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bulls**t. But in any case Cheyco is right. Unless we are entering a brew in a competition then clarity takes second place over taste.Baron von BeeGee said:Nobody every accused the Canadians of not being a practical people! Sounds like some of my cousin-in-law's "newfie ingenuity"!
Cheyco's almost as far from a Newfie as it gets (Alberta). At least that's where he lives now...boo boo said:I didn't think you were a Newf, Cheyco. You know what we say (Newfies) If you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bulls**t. But in any case Cheyco is right. Unless we are entering a brew in a competition then clarity takes second place over taste.
I have read that starch haze is usually permanent, while chill haze is made up of proteins that form a complex with some other (polyphenols among them) things at low temperatures. The complex is insoluble and forms a coloidal haze that won't settle (stable coloid). So starch haze is mainly proteic in origin...Baron von BeeGee said:My understanding: the chill haze most people complain about that no amount of conditioning will get rid of is caused by starch. This starch would be a result of lautering before conversion was complete. This is totally inherent of the mash.
A good, vigorous boil and subsequent chilling will coagulate and settle out proteins that could also cause haze in the finished product. The difference here is that by cold conditioning you can cause this protein haze to develop and precipitate to the bottom of the bottle (or secondary) leaving a clear beverage.
That's my story and I'm sticking with it until e-smacked by a superior force!
Yep...it's basically an aesthetic issue for chill haze. And it may even keep the neighborhood leeches from sucking down your brew!davidkrau said:The beer still tastes pretty good even if it isa little cloudy.
Baron von BeeGee said:Many of us don't get chill haze. To avoid it, you need to avoid the proteins that cause it. This can be done in a # of ways, some of which are:
- Good hot break via a rapid and vigorous boil.
- Kettle finings (Irish moss, whirlfloc, etc).
- Good cold break via chiller of some type.
- Extended aging period (secondary, several weeks or more). Cooler temperatures will help precipitate the haze such that it can settle in the secondary.
- Chilling bottles for an aging period such that haze forms and precipitates (same as above, but in the bottle instead of fermenter).
In addition to the above, chill haze can be caused by improper doughing in of the mash. If a lot of flour due to a poor crush is allowed to be mashed improperly ( dough balls) then what happens is unconverted starch is left in the mash and when it comes time to sparge it gets washed into the boil kettle and ends up as chill haze in the finished brew.
Baron von BeeGee said:Many of us don't get chill haze. To avoid it, you need to avoid the proteins that cause it. This can be done in a # of ways, some of which are:
- Good hot break via a rapid and vigorous boil.
- Kettle finings (Irish moss, whirlfloc, etc).
- Good cold break via chiller of some type.
- Extended aging period (secondary, several weeks or more). Cooler temperatures will help precipitate the haze such that it can settle in the secondary.
- Chilling bottles for an aging period such that haze forms and precipitates (same as above, but in the bottle instead of fermenter).
With enough patience I can get crystal clear beer, but since it's primarily aesthetic I don't let it stop me from killing a few.
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