Tsp-pf

Hey everyone,
I am new to the board, so I apologize if the question has been answered. I did a search and found similar topics, but not exactly what I was looking for. I read in my intro to brewing book that you can use TSP to clean the bottles, and mix with bleach to sanitize. I went to the local store and they only had TSP-PF (phosphate free). Will this do the same? I filled a 5 gallon bucket (not used for fermenting or bottling) and mixed with water as the instructions list. I put about 15 bottles in there for about 2 hours, and the labels basically come right off or have already fallen off. I just rinse under very hot water. I did not have bleach so just used TSP-PF.

1. Is this stuff the same as TSP? If not, is it okay to be using?

2. Since I did not use bleach, I plan on putting bottles in dishwasher on sanitizer mode to sanitize the night before bottling. All the bottles I am using have been washed out right after drinking previously. Will this do the job? I then use a no-rinse solution provided with my brew kit on every bottle before filling. How does the process sound?

Any other suggestions? After getting these labels off these bottles, I will hopefully re-use and won't need to remove labels every time, just sanitize. Is it enough to just use the no-rinse solution before bottling if I have properly rinses the bottles out after drinking?

Thank you very much!

I don't know about the chemical makeup of TSP but the most commonly used product to remove labels is Oxyclean.

I just soak the bottles in a bucket with 1/3 scoop overnight and most of the labels just fall off. I quick wipe with a scrubbie will get the glue residue off then rinse and done.

Get the perfume free variety. Walmart sells it as Sun, I think.

Rinse out the bottles really well after use then on bottling day rinse them again then sanitize and fill.

It's sodium metasilicate which is a component of PBW. A poor mans PBW can be made using it at around 25% TSP-pf or Red Devil/90 (same thing) and the rest Oxyclean. It makes a good brewery cleaner in that ratio, but you don't want to use it straight on glass.

Here's an old thread on it.

Actually, that is incorrect. I always thought that TSP-pf and Red Devil/90 were the same, but the MSDS of TSP-pf shows something else (sodium sesquicarbonate) as the main engredient. Sorry about that. Here's the MSDS http://www.savogran.com/Information/TSP_PF_MS.pdf

and for Red Devil/90 http://www.reddevil.com/msds-tds/msds_0261_0265.pdf

Searches turn up people using the TSP-pf and Oxyclean but I've only used the Red Devil/90 so I can't comment on that.